#421

New research review / summary on Skin Aging (out of China, I make no claims on its accuracy):

Research Progress on Skin Aging and Active Ingredients

With the advancement of living standards in modern society and the emergence of an aging population, an increasing number of people are becoming interested in the topic of aging and anti-aging. An important feature of aging is skin aging, and women are particularly concerned about skin aging. In the field of cosmetics, the market share of anti-aging products is increasing year by year. This article reviews the research and development progress of skin aging and related active compounds both domestically and internationally in recent years. The results show that, in terms of the research on skin aging, the popular theories mainly include free radicals and oxidative stress theory, inflammation theory, photoaging theory, and nonenzymatic glycosyl chemistry theory. In terms of research on the active ingredients with anti-aging activities in the skin, there are numerous reports on related products in clinical studies on human subjects, animal experiments, and experimental studies on cell cultures, with a variety of types. Most of the compounds against skin aging are sourced from natural products and their action mechanisms are mainly related to scavenging oxygen free radicals and enhancing antioxidant defenses. This review provides important references for the future research of skin aging and the development of related products. Although there is a great progress in skin aging including related active ingredients, ideal compounds or products are still lacking and need to be further validated. New mechanisms of skin aging, new active ingredients sourced from natural and artificial products, and new pharmaceutical forms including further clinical validations should be further investigated in the future.

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#422

Home made banana peel facial mask: blend 1 banana peel, egg white (1 egg), a few drops of castor oil. Apply liberally to skin for 20 min.

Banana peel can be replaced by strawberries. Alternating banana peel and strawberries produces excellent results.

Drops of Manuka honey could be added to both.

#423

whether the lidocaine in that mesoā€¦ stuff has epinephrine or not

#424

No lidocaine in meso. You can apply topical lidocaine if needed. I donā€™t feel any pain when injecting at 2 mm depth with 30-32g needle.

#425

ā€œBeauty is in the eye of the beholderā€ The same principle applies to the results of tens of thousands of beauty products I have seen promoted and hype promising to make your skin look younger. Meh.

So if you have a condition that needs to be treated, then do it.

Millions of people around the world have beautiful skin and use no cosmetics, supplements, etc.

I use prescription tretinoin along with rapamycin to control my actinic keratoses.

Yes, some supplements reduce fine lines and plump up the skin. But again, IMO, Meh
They are hardly worth the money.

If you want to have youthful skin, start rapamycin early, stay out of the sun, eat healthy, and exercise.
But even doing this there is no evidence that you are going to escape the effects of gravity and entropy.

Aging produces facial bone loss and internal anti-aging protocols such as rapamycin are the only way to slow this down.

So be a minimalist when it comes to external cosmetics, otherwise, you are just wasting your money.

Sorry to be so negative about this but this is from a lifetime of observing friends and family spending loads of money on beauty products to look younger.

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#426

I totally understand your point of view here, the cosmetics industry is for the most part full of below par products, but, weā€™re in a really interesting time where weā€™re beginning to see a huge explosion in aging biotech. Technology, even cosmetics technology, especially where it meets biotech is making progress. Nothing is static, the fact that weā€™re on this site discussing Rapamycin is testament to that.
Iā€™m not in any way interested in cosmetics, but I have been interested in aging though for a long time.
I love to research and if I think there might be some genuine benefit, based on science, then Iā€™ll give something a try. Itā€™s a minefield though, and I have to say that thereā€™s a lot of garbage out there. But even within the field thereā€™s a lot of snake oil. But all of that said, Iā€™ve found a few things that have made a difference. Oneskin is a good example, there are one or two other things, but theyā€™re just too pricey. Weā€™re all different and all have different goals. Prevention is by far the best cure, but thatā€™s not always possible for people who might have just gotten interested and have neglected their appearance. In my case, Iā€™m interested in trying to slow down the process as much as I can, inside and out. I believe thereā€™s a strong link between how we look and how we feel, so I donā€™t think the drive for people to try and preserve their youthful looks is all that surprising. So while youā€™re probably correct that youā€™ve observed a lifetime of people spending loads of money and not getting any results, Iā€™m not sure thatā€™s going to be true for long.

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#427

yep.

Tret, rapamycin, and I would add a sunscreen with very high UVA protection, wide brimmed hat/visor, and sunglasses. If you feel you must get some sun, let your legs get the damage.

Sunscreen is very important. Lots of people here would like to pass 110 years but really looking like this? (Sheā€™s 108).

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I remain skeptical about everything else.

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#428

I was asking because of what u wrote prior:

ā€œFillers come with lidocaine. Meso cocktails are injected superficially - 1.5-2mm depth and itā€™s not painful.ā€

And here now you write the opposite.

ā€œNo lidocaine in mesoā€

so which is it ?

#429

Fillers usually contain lidocaine.
HA for mesotherapy usualy does not. There are few exceptions (e.g. Volite from Juvederm).

#430

Lucky you. I asked once my husband (he is a plastic surgeon) to try and do a mesobotox for pores in my T-zone. Really superficial injections, but it was so painful that I was in tears and swore I am not doing it ever again. Porcelain skin is not worth it :no_mouth:

#431

Those two sentences are not connected. Fillers come with lidocaine. And meso (not fillers that come with lidocaine) are injected superficially. Meso cocktails do not contain lidocaine. Some sensitive ppl use topical lidocaine. Most ppl donā€™t feel pain with meso cocktails.

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#432

Botox is painful and is injected deeper. Meso is very superficial. No pain. Also, I noticed that if you do it on yourself itā€™s less painful :blush:

#433

dermarolling and most of the other things mention maybe ok . BUT for sure facial exercises are very very WRONG. That is going the exact opposite way. BOTOX ;has the great advantage of almost paralyzing the muscles which is what is desired as i have used it before. Ofcourse it only lasts a few months but even helps after that time as u may not have the unconscously flex those muscles as much. In particular the best example is the forehead rhytides . Other places it is not as well defined etc. for one other than forehead muscles are much thicker and really difficult to get enough to paralyze them. The idea is that u do NOT want any flexing of muscles at all as it also flexes the skin which is a main cause of wrinkles and is most obvious on the forehead but is also true for ā€˜crows feetā€™ , nasolabial folds and everywhere else. So anything to do with facial exercises is a NO NO. Botox is good if do enough to paralyze muscles as much as possible so u cannot move them.

#434

Yes it is always less painful if do it yourself. I have done botox a few times myself with no anesthesia above eyebrows for forehead and also to a less extent for glabellar area. It was painful but i could ā€˜hackā€™ it and a hell of a lot better and less expensive than the one time i went to a doctor to have it done - what a mistake that wasā€¦ I wanted to do platelet rich plasma but i had to go to practitioner because i donā€™t have proper centifuge nor other things likely needed nor know how of exactly how to prepare it etc. The practitioner for the most part did similar to maybe derma rolling i would say but when he attempted to do the injections(of my own centrifuged blood and whatever) i could not stand it so had to stop with only 2 injections. I would say the injections were probably the most important or longer lasting noticeable part of prp. All he gave was topical useless Emla cream which is worthless. The next time he gave me some of my own centrifuged blood or whatever u call it for me to take home and inject myself but i could not even stand that with only lidocaine with no epinephrine though i am pretty sure i could if i had put epinephrine in it(from prior experience} but i got tired of the whole ordeal and quit. That is just too much of a pain to inject hundreds of times which i would have to have done at 16 injections per square inch. I donā€™t know exactly what u mean by superficial but if it is only say 2 millimeters or enough so that u can inject and fluid stays in the skin then i would say that is very painful for most people with no anesthesia when u consider all areas of face. Maybe to you not painful but to most others it would be with no anesthesia esp at bottom of nose or lips nor probably also at a few other select areas where it is needed.

#435

Itā€™s up to 2 mm, which means not more than 2. In many areas itā€™s just 1mm or even less. Superficial - close to surface, not deep.

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#436

My skin care routine:

A. I tried many retinols but have always came back to use a retinol called Altreno. It is one of the more high end prescription retinols, however, it completely doesnā€™t irritate my skin (and anecdotally doesnā€™t irritate most peoples skin) and works wonderfully. This is because it is formulated to contain a blend of Hyaluronic Acid, Natural marine collagen, and Glycerin in addition to the Tretinoin. I definitely see an improvement in fine lines, skin texture, minimized pores , and reduction of blackheads/whiteheads. With GoodRx the large tube of 45g , which would last you 5 months+ , costs about $120. Altreno | The Evidence | Ortho Dermatologics

B. Although I am relatively young, I still do a Forever Young BBl by Sciton on my face once to twice a year. The results are incredible. In a week, any sun spots on my face, sun damage, rosacea, facial veins, etcā€¦ all dissapear. The cost should be about $400 per treatment. The results are maintained for the whole year as long as you wear a zinc-oxide sunscreen to prevent further sun damage and take care of your skin. If you can spare the expense to have it done once a year, I highly recommend.

C. Although, I donā€™t reccomend chemical sunscreens for a multiple of reasons: xenoestrogens, oxybenzone, endocrine disruptors, etcā€¦ , I do support the use of and personally use zinc-oxide sunscreens from EltaMD for anti-aging reasons and definitely after retinol or facial laser use as the skin is more prone to sun damage and irritation.

D. For moisturizers, I rotate between a HA moisturizer, water cream, or beef tallow balm.

E. In regard to mesotherapy, skin and hair mesotherapy is quite common in many clinics in Europe. For example, for androgenic alopecia many clinics in Europe (especially in Spain and Portugal) inject for hair mesotherapy a mix of 1ml of .01 sterile dutasteride with 2-3ml of a silica, amino acid, vitmain + mineral blend such as RRS XL hair. Usually the injection consists of a 30-32g needle with 20-30 small injections over the scalp (obviously depending on the area of the diffuse thinning). The injection is usually 4mm deep to reach the hair bulb and is done once every 3 months. No need to worry about systemic effects of dutasteride when directly injected into the scalp as the literature has reported nil systemic effects. I personally do this treatment every 2-3 months with fantastic results and 0 change in my serum DHT as the dutasteride inhibits the binding affinity of DHT to the hair follicle locally on the scalp which prevents the follicle miniaturization. The whole treatment takes around 20 minutes and cost around 100 - 150 euros. This treatment is rarely done in the US and if so it is usually 6-10x the cost than that in the EU for subpar quality.

For women with hair loss, the hair mesotherapy is done without the dutasteride , meaning just with the silica, amino acid, vitmain + mineral blend as the root cause is different and is rarely androgenic alopecia.

Here are some studies:

If you have any questions, please let me know.

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#437

Tomorrow going to see my dermatologist and will ask for Altreno prescription. Thank you for the info.

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#438

IF it is deep enough to absorb most of whatever fluid is in the syringe and say more than 0.1 milliter of fluid then itā€™s likely to be quite painful at least to me. Nerves are more numerous at the surface than anywhere else and less as go deeper so that is likely why i can do deeper botox injections but canā€™t handle ones very shallow near the surface.Of course the location also can make quite a difference. I doubt anyone can handle injections bottom of nose areaā€¦

#439

It was MESObotox I tried, it is superficial intradermal injections but it was just too painful. Maybe just my pain threshold is really low.

#440

I tried Botox last time some 15 years ago and it was very painful. I stopped bc my nephrologist advised against it. Amazingly, I did not develop more wrinkles without it. Still crow feet wrinkles free. Maybe because of mesotherapy or using ā€œsmoothiesā€ at night on each side.

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