No guarantees. My approach is to let it go to zero between doses to avoid accumulation and to let my body do its normal stuff some of the time.
Weigh the upside vs downside for your own situation. Then roll the dice.
My 2 cents.
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Yes - under 1ng/ml is getting very low, perhaps undetectable in many tests.
Some people believe that you should have a few days zeroād out before dosing again. Some people dose weekly even with these low levels, and then periodically take a few weekās break to make sure mTORC2 is not inhibited. Check for any obvious and not-so-obvious side effects (via blood work, periodically).
People with results like this have a few options, keep taking it on a weekly basis and take breaks periodically, or increase the length of time between dosing to 8 or 9 days to make sure it gets to zero before dosing again,ā¦ or adjusting dose down a bit. There is no āone-size fits allā in this area. Read up, make a decision on what you think works for you.
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Bicep
#125
When I was deciding how to do this, I found a study that said problems went away when the trough was< 2. So by that you are safe. I go 14 days and double the dose in order to get a lower trough. The intent of the study was to find a rate that wouldnāt cause a build up of complex 2, not optimize your health ( though they may be the same thing). I wanted to err on the safe side.
There hasnāt been enough studies to have any certainty.
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I think complex one is useful at times.
sudiki
#127
I donāt know how it would improve vision. If your lens gets hard due to age for example (presbyopia) I donāt think rapa will 'soften" it.
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Retina uses a lot of energy. Mitochondria function matters for eye function. If rapa is good for mitochondria, that would be a mechanism. Red and NIR light is helpful for mitochondria (including eye) energy output. Blue (white LED) wavelengths impair mitochondria energy output (especially eye). I have a podcast coming out on this research.
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sudiki
#129
I "recently"started (then stopped due to a sched. surgery). I dosed at 1 mg per wk until reaching 6mg. I then changed to 5mg with GFJ every 2 wks. I have dosed at this for 2x now. I feel tired/rundown a bit for the first 2 days after dosing but then back to normal. It may go away once I get used to the dose. or may notā¦
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adriank
#130
I changed from Siroboon to Rapacan brand this week. What is interesting is that the new brand did not trigger my usual gout attack on day 2-3. Let see how I go next week with a higher dose. I take all my rapamycin with 750ml of GFJ (3 hours after). I also have dinner at the same time as the GFJ, although I am hoping the new pills will mean that I do not have to worry about reducing my stomach acid to achieve a higher blood level. I am going to stick to my 84 hour test first and make my way to 12 hour and maybe even 3 hour.
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I must admit I am pleased to follow the movements in WBC and glucose etc as apart from sleep disruption I donāt really have any bad symptoms from rapamycin. However, the drop in WBC and the rollercoaster on glucose demonstrates that I am taking legitimate rapamycin (as well as the changes in hair follicles and kidney function).
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mhalpin
#132
Hey Jason!
My name is Maren and Iām with 7 News in Boston, MA. We are working on a story about the potential for rapamycin for longevity, and would greatly value your perspective as a rapamycin user. Let me know if you would be willing to chat, thanks so much!
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Agetron
#133
Greetings Maren - I did send you a private message with images and my contact information. Yes, I would be happy to do an interview with you.
Iām currently in Milano, Italy and will be heading back to the USA in the morning. Happy to chat with you at your convenience.
Jason
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Iāve been taking for 8 months and havenāt noticed anything. I only take 2mg with 10oz. of grapefruit juice once a week. I am 69 and have been on TRT therapy for 5 years. I have noticed a drop in strength but this may be normal aging. My TRT dose is 100mg once a week. I still bench 250 but have noticed that recovering is a bit more difficult then it was before starting Rapamycin. I take Rapamycin on Sunday and do my heavier lifts on Wednesday. I also like to embibe a couple of drinks daily. I started LDN 20 days ago and have noticed an improvement in sleep. I have a herniated disc lower back and LDN has helped in this area. I also noticed a reduction in pain for left knee which is bone on bone and in need of replacement surgery. Back to Rapamycin I do not feel itās made any difference but only time will tell. Cheers!
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Agetron
#135
Two things come to mind one is that your dose is a little unpredictable. When I started rapamycin ā¦ it was strictly 6 mg once a week pills ā¦nothing else. I did that for a year plusā¦ before experimenting.
Next,I had just gotten past the age of 60 we know that we age spike at 40 years and 60 years. So perhaps some of that spike is harder to reverse kind of like Matt Kaeberlein says that if you donāt have cancer youāll never get it ā¦if you donāt have Alzheimerās you donāt ever get it, but if you do have it youāll get some benefit from rapamycin. Having gone past the age marker it might be a little harder for you to reverse some of that damage. I was at the cusp and maybe missed itā¦ prevented itā¦ just a thought.
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adriank
#136
Guess what? My 8mg dose with GFJ and dinner gave me a score of 13.0 ng/mL after 84 hoursā¦ that means I have to skip this week. Next week I will drop the dose down to 4mg. I canāt believe a different brand can be such a big difference. 8mg of Siroboon would give me about 3.0ng/mL after 84 hours.
@DrFraser skip this week right? Or should I do another lot at 8mg just to confirmā¦ I did not expect it to be this high after 3.5 days.
DrFraser
#137
8 mg with GFJ is a massive dose, as this is essentially 24 mg. I do 4 mg and that puts me out to a 12 day dosing interval (w/ GFJ). With a big dose like that you are probably heading more toward the 60 hr half life, so the 13 level will become 6.5 in 60 hrs, then that will become 3.2 in 60 hrs, then in another 3 hrs youāll be around 3.
So from when that blood test was done, youāll have 124 hrs more of significant inhibition. So from when you took the sirolimus youāll have 207 hours of essentially 9 days of significant inhibition, and with that dose youāll have immunosuppression and all the risks associated.
Iād be seriously considering going down on this, as I think there will be risks, and little benefit.
Iād repeat this with a 4 mg w/ GFJ and even then calculate the interval. I push it up because I have an ApoE4, but push out the dosing interval.
One thing for sure, youāre using some real rapamycin.
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Agetron
#138
Marenā¦ Thanks for the opportunity to visit and give my point of view on rapamycin as a longevity and health span supplement.
I think the interview with Dave went very wellā¦ very knowledgeable excellent questions. I hope my perspective benefits your audience.
You can contact me by cell phone if you have any additional questions or by email.
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adriank
#139
Today I took 4mgā¦ and I will get a 24 hour blood test and a 4 day blood test. I took it at 2pm my time so I will be able to get the blood test during those period. I am pretty happy that the new Zydus rapamycin did not trigger my goutā¦ which usually happens on day 2-3 if I had taken the Siroboon. Maybe because I take a higher dosage.
Looks like I am going to grind up all the old Siroboon pills and use them for my skin LOL.
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If you are doing 4 mg with GFJ, I would advocate for a 20-24 hour level, then a second one 48 hours after the first level (e.g. 68 hours post taking the rapamycin). This will easily allow estimation of T1/2 and assessment of levels.
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adriank
#141
Thx, I will do one test tomorrow at 24 hours and then at day 3 which is 72 hours. Will be interesting to find out. On another note, I will be doing my ferritin check as wellā¦ just to see with the improved liver function, whether the iron level will also drop. I did my liver function test the last time and it is no longer considered fatty for the first time in over 2 years.
@DrFraser if you tell me exactly the time to take the blood test to work out the best figures, I can change the time I take rapamycin to make sure the pathology is open to do the blood test. It is literally just 5 minutes from my house so I am happy to do that if I can get a better gauge of what it is doing.
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Nlo
#142
Iām doing a Rapamycin self trial with a good friend who is 20 yrs older (in his 70s), where as I am a woman in my 50ās. He is 5ā 10āā and 182. I am 5ā1āā and 116 lbs. We are both fairly active and healthy. We are sourcing our rapa from same pharmacy and have been titrating up from 1 mg to 4 mgs. I have been taking my dose with evoo and sardines. He takes his dose with gfj, and he eats parsley almost daily.
Our dosing day and the few days following have now started to become more predictable for each of us, but very different from one another.
He feels great, with increased energy and stamina. He tackles more yard work and his sleep is normal. He feels so good that he moved to 6 mgs with gfj today and feels amazing. He feels better than normal.
I take mine a few hours after a 45 minute workout and rapa makes me feel somewhat fatigued for 1-2 days, and I might have a twinge of nausea and almost dizzy/lightheadedness in the first hours after dosing. I sleep poorly for a few nights and I experience muscle aches from my 45 minute workout, which never happens with other workouts. I stayed at 4 mgs, but have a feeling that I should probably reduce back to 2 mgs weekly.
I see that our experiences are not unusual. I have seen many descriptions of the energetic, never felt better group, and many descriptions of the fatigued, even slightly achy group.
My question to all of you is what you posit this may mean? I realize that we are all just theorizing (more so for those of us who have not tested and donāt have any personal data), so I am not taking your ideas as fact or medical advice. I am just curious to hear what people theorize this might mean. I am especially curious if you would still attempt a higher dose if feeling minor fatigue, muscle aches or if you would go back down to a lower dose. None of my symptoms are overwhelming, and not all are negative. I had a period after several years of menopause, and I may have less anxiety.
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