How Do I Get Rapamycin for My Dog?

[RapAdmin]

Scientists explore longevity drugs for dogs that could also ‘extend human life’

[jnorm]

After 4 only doses, I I’ve noticed a couple positive changes:

• Firstly, Pauly’s skin on his tail had made a remarkable improvement. He has always gotten really bad hot spots on his entire tail that eventually ended up scabbing over, and have never disappeared in the past few years. Feeling it today I noticed that the crusting was entirely gone, and the fur on his tail has thickened to the point that the skin underneath is no longer visible. I’m assuming the rapa has reduced the inflammation and allowed it to heal. I’m very happy and impressed with this result.
• Secondly, until he was about 2 it seemed that every time I took him for a walk, he would snap into a frenzy for about 90 seconds. Play fighting with me. The frequency of this reduced less and less and over the past year he basically never did it anymore. I’ve noticed the past couple weeks that he is doing this every time we go for a walk now, which indicates to me a rejuvenation effect.

A little update on my dog Pauly:

He had about a four month break from rapamycin due to me running out. During this time the hot spots on his tail and lower back began to worsen slightly, although they were still far, far better than before he took rapamycin.

At the end of November I resumed his 3mg every 10 days rapamycin protocol. After 4 doses in the past month the results are already remarkable. The skin on his lower back and tail look completely healthy, with zero scabbing or oozing. This is the healthiest his skin has looked at any point in his adult life.

Obviously these hotspots have a complex etiology, with probably some combination of bacterial colonization, excessive inflammation, and possibly autoimmunity playing a role. These results are suggestive that rapamycin pushes the networks regulating these processes in a healthy direction.

[globaltraveler]

I’m very interested in rapamycin for my dogs. I have purchased from Turning Back the Years website as they provide genuine sourced products and a very good price. I just now need to understand if its a good idea for my dogs to start taking it (two small 12 year old cockapoos) - only one showing signs of age and thinning fur, but they are both healthy and happy. I’d like to think that rapamycin will help them age less and live a bit longer and healthier. So the big question is how do I know if they should take it and how much? Additionally should I have the vet involved to monitor?

[59vw]

Most are dosing their dogs at 0.15mg / kg weekly. The most direct reason being that that is the dose being used in the dog aging project but TDAP had good reasons for choosing that dose as being both safe and likely effective. This is also close to the per kg dose (actually a little higher) that most human’s take once / week. There is no evidence that this dose harms them but it is experimental and it would be worth running labs with your vet perhaps every 6 months to make sure things like white blood cell count and ferritin don’t get out of wack. The results from the dog aging project study won’t likely be published for several years.

[RapAdmin]

Perhaps relevant for humans too…

Source: x.com

全文：Enhancing cognitive functions in aged dogs and cats: a systematic review of enriched diets and nutraceuticals

[Zuman_Ju]

@Kelsey

I wonder if there is a solution for this.
My dog is 10 lbs. I want to give him 0.5mg three times a week, But Indiamart although lists 0.5mg when you ask, the sellers say they have 1mg or higher doses. They also say you can cut it in half but I don’t think they care after they sell you the pills. I am scared to cut and give it to my dog. He is 14 years old.

Any idea how to overcome this 0.5mg issue? Would it be fine to give him 1mg once a week instead 0.5mg three times a week?

[RapAdmin]

@Zuman_Ju

Any idea how to overcome this 0.5mg issue? Would it be fine to give him 1mg once a week instead 0.5mg three times a week?

Yes - dosing once per week is fine.

[Beth]

I can’t speak to safety or efficacy, but in the spirit of sharing, I bought delayed release empty capsules from animalbiome.com. That way, I put half a pill into one and then it will supposedly bypass the stomach. Well actually, I chop up the half into many bits in order to fit it inside the size #5 capsule.

This works brilliantly, if my cat does not bite it!

I’m curious, when most of us dose weekly, or even less, what is the rationale on more frequent dosing for your dog. I also noticed this elsewhere. Is this some sort of calculation based on how long they live?

[Zuman_Ju]

Thank you. I will do that. Do you recommend a specific brand from India or a brand to avoid definitely?

[Zuman_Ju]

I am not sure about this. Hope someone who has experience comment on it. Never even heard you could do that.

[Kelsey]

I order the 1mg pill, pill split into quarters and dose in a small Animal Biome enteric cap.

My 5.1 kg dog is definitely experiencing an increase in energy, but also an increase in drive, barrier aggression and resource guarding. So in agreement with my veterinarian, we’re holding at .25 mg per week. I can also dose him twice per week if I feel he can use it. He’s a sport dog and it negatively impacts his focus, so I hold back before competition and big training days.

[RapAdmin]

@Zuman_Ju

Do you recommend a specific brand from India or a brand to avoid definitely?

Zydus seems to be the most reputable provider, and Eris/Biocon Rapacan also generally good. I would avoid Kachella.

See these threads: What rapamycin brands are people using?

• Rapamycin / Sirolimus from India, Lab Test Report on Quality / Purity

• Generally Good Indian Pharma Companies

• Eris LifeSciences Brand of Sirolimus from India

[Zuman_Ju]

So, 1mg total in a month? And he weighs 5kg? That’s super low. Maybe I should do the same since you also see improvements. What brand is it? Sorry for multiple questions.

[Kelsey]

My and other’s experience here would be to start with a lower dose for 3-4 weeks, then titrate up if you dog is handling the rap well. Buy a pill splitter and Biocon enteric coated small capsules.

I prefer Zydus and Biocon in that order.

A full dose on a 14 y.o. could be tough. Please consult your vet. If your vet is not open to it, you can also get veterinary advice from Petspan:

https://www.petspan.com/longevity?utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=Search_Brand_US&utm_content=Brand_Petspan_Exact&campaignid=21614293649&adgroupid=169397793594&location=9031117&keyword=petspan&matchtype=e&network=g&device=m&gclid=CjwKCAiAneK8BhAVEiwAoy2HYYaUHKaOeRecOtrfMdq4KMcVjfnRxc3SB5_rMkMtyzalpEEMB-KwzhoChvIQAvD_BwE&creative=729750890071&placement=&target=&adposition=&gad_source=1&gbraid=0AAAAA-FATY5xRnV2snQ7aMiAzh1ds61ig

[Kelsey]

I would also add I would not put your canine on Rap especially at 14 years without having a CBC senior blood panel with ALT & AST within range. Very important.

Rapamycin in not a benign drug and is regulated for a reason. Please use care and professional consideration prior to use on your animal companion.

[Zuman_Ju]

Just curious as why directly giving a split pill is different than putting the split pill in an enteric cap and give it?

[Beth]

This makes a lot of sense and thank you for that feedback

I was told I should start my cats at .5 and then eventually give them a whole pill, but if a full sized human is taking on ave 6mg, I’m not sure I understand why anyone would consider 1mg on an animal that is between 5-13 pounds, especially because they can’t express they have a mouth ulcer and we most likely wouldn’t see a rash etc.

Without more information, I don’t plan to give them more than .5

And as you noted, my cats, due to their health issues, get blood work done every 1-3 months.

[RapAdmin]

@Zuman_Ju

Just curious as why directly giving a split pill is different than putting the split pill in an enteric cap and give it?

I wouldn’t recommend splitting the pills at all. That breaks the cover that prevents the destruction of the compound before it hits the small intestine. And at that point you probably are getting little to none of the active rapamycin ingredient.

Putting the pill (split pill or rapamycin powder) into an enteric capsule “might” work - but people here have reported that it hasn’t, so it likely depends on type of capsule, etc. - and its impossible to verify that your dog is actually getting any rapamycin into its system. There are no easy/cheap blood sirolimus tests for dogs like there are for humans.

[Beth]

Here is the study done on cats with heart disease where they used delayed release rapa. It’s how I got the idea for using DR capsules

@RapAdmin, I hadn’t caught that people here have reported the DR caps don’t always work. I don’t doubt you. Do you feel I’m making a mistake and I should potentially dose 1mg instead, even if this means skipping a week? Also, cats stomachs are much more acidic than a dogs, so would a human coated tablet even get to their small intestine?

In the pdf, I highlighted the dosing they used. The low dose of .3/kg worked in the study.

Now, I’m second guessing myself because if my math is correct, depending on their weight, these cats were getting much more than .5mg. I guess this is why I was advised to give them 1mg. If this is true, and if I used the same .3mg per kg for myself, that would mean I should take 14mg per week, which of course sounds nuts.

I’m horrible at math, so you won’t hurt my feelings if you tell me how wrong I am. And if I’m not wrong, why are these studies using doses for animals most of us wouldn’t consider on ourselves? It just seems wrong? Is it simply because most people don’t care about the wellbeing of animals in studies, so they went higher than what seems rational to achieve their goal? @Kelsey thoughts?

EDIT: @59vw I see you shared the dog study is .15mg/kg… that number makes more sense and is half of what they dosed the cats with.

Cat rapa.pdf (998.3 KB)

[Kelsey]

The enteric coated capsules from Animal Biome are working for my dog. Remember the sores citing above when I titrated up too aggressively? It was likely similar to the canker sores one gets with rapamycin. Attia says he doesn’t mind the sores because he knows there is enough product in what he’s taking.

I’d note there doesn’t seem to be much of a coating on the Biocon tablets. There’s a sturdier coating on Zydus. With other brands of enteric capsules, your mileage may vary.

I’ve tried to source the smaller tablets and it’s very difficult to find a reputable distributor or not go to a compounder. Even if I needed to double the dose in order to see an effect on my dog, it would be worth it. but I still sit at a third of the study dose because I see a remarkable difference in my dog’s energy and arousal.