mccoy
#19
I’m not so sure about it, it’s a point to be ascertained, olives got the fibers, don’t know if they concentrate so many polyphenols.
Those who wish the polyphenols alone usually take olive leaf extracts, which come in many guises, from the traditional supplement to the dry leaves, to the aqueous solution.
AnUser
#20
It’s at least one order of magnitude more polyphenols in olives than EVOO matched by calories:
Which is still far ahead of olive oil. To translate this to relateable numbers:
About 30 olives will have the same polyphenol content of over a quart (+4 oz) of olive oil. Maybe even double as much.
Or put another way, a single olive will have a polyphenol count of about 16.6mg.
A tablespoon of olive oil, which came from roughly 100 olives, has the polyphenol count of a single of 6.94.
To get the equivalent polyphenols of a single olive (3-4 calories), you’ll need to eat about 2.4 tablespoons of olive oil, 288 calories.
Analysis and studies:
https://www.reddit.com/r/PlantBasedDiet/comments/ug5prz/polyphenols_in_olives_vs_olive_oil/
mccoy
#21
AnUser, I read with interest the reddit post, but there is at least one clear issue:
- the poster is clearly biased against EVOO, by the tone of his writing. Am I applying a logical fallacy? Only in part, since his emotional involvement may have caused a lack of objectivity, or perhaps influenced a cherry picking, or similar pitfalls. It’s all speculative, but when I start to hear tribal nuances, I assign much less credibility to the source.
Another issue is more technical.
- Dry weight of olives. The poster at first cites a concentration per 100 g of dry weight:
In contrast, the phenolic content decreased in green olives from 652 to 460 mg gallic acid/100 g dry weight
Then he seems to forget about the dry weight:
So, while fresh (but bitter and mildly toxic) olives have over 2,000 mg to start with, after processing it gets reduced to about (averaging) 500mg/100g. 100 grams of olives are about 115 calories.
From some sources, an olive is about 75% water, so the polyphenols concentration in the natural, undried fruit would be about 500mg/400g = 1.25/1000 = 1250 ppm
Table olives and health: a review - PMC)(8%2C9).
The figure above would not be an order of magnitude, although it would be much more of what I would expect, about twice the amount of a hi-polyphenols EVOO.
There are other aspects though, for example, are the secoiridoids in olives the same and in the same amount than in EVOO, since the extraction process could concentrate specific varieties.
I’m afraid this issue would deserve a far wider search, with the exam of many specialistic articles.
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AnUser
#22
Thanks, didn’t notice dry weight or remember that I did.
But:
This suggests 160 mg/100g of fresh weight green olives:
and
117 mg/100 g fresh weight for black olives:
So 117 mg for 115 kcal for black olives.
So if EVOO has 500 mg/kg… that’s 5 mg per 10 grams which is 90 kcal, or 6 mg for 115 kcal.
Or about 20 x difference.
I think you need to do 500 mg *0.25 = 125 mg/100 g, about the same as the source above.
mccoy
#23
Yes, it’s the same: 125 mg/100g = 1250 mg/kg = 1250 ppm, since one gram is one-millionth of a kilogram.
But, going back to the purpose of this discussion, the point if I remember well is: is it convenient, calorie-wise, to ingest olives as a source of EVOO polyphenols rather than EVOO?
I cannot open the database you linked, only the metabolites part, but I’m going to search some data myself, it seems strange that olives have such an edge over EVOO, in that case I would eat more of’em myself.
One point I can say is that EVOO analysis is mandatory by law, not the polyphenols, but producers are learning to exhibit this parameter as well, so you can know the value in nearly each single quality oil.
Olives do not exhibit such content on their labels. With the values you figured out it would be a moot point anyway. Another point: polyphenols are a huge class of compounds. Secoiridoids might be present mainly in the oily part and concentrate in EVOO. Just speculations, to be ascertained.
AnUser
#24
One black olive (5 grams) has about 5 mg polyphenols and 5 kcal.
Two olives 10 mg polyphenols, for 10 kcal has the same polyphenol count as 2 tbsp of High Polyphenol EVOO for 240 kcal.
I have archived black olive total polyphenol count here with sources: https://archive.is/sMweT
and the composition of polyphenols: https://archive.is/5mZEy
Here is the data of the polyphenols in black olives. Lower down is Bryan Johnson’s EVOO.
Oleuropein is 72 mg / 100 g for black olives while 6.1 mg / kg for the EVOO, for example.
The hydroxytyrosol content of my EVOO is 40 mg/100 g. It’s still much less than black olives matched by calories (900 kcal vs. 115 kcal). 
It’s so much in olives then so yes a few olives will give way more polyphenols than the best EVOO ever could it seems for the typical intake.
mccoy
#25
AnUser, it may be an issue of which specific polyphenols. If examining the total concentration of whatsoever polyphenols, then I agree to your point. But apparently what’s in the olive is not necessarily in EVOO and vice-versa.
I’m currently reading what’s available in this non-accessible article.
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0021967319308192
Despite the fact that at least 36 polyphenols from five different classes have been identified in the leaves and fruits of Olea europaea L., most of the studies have focussed on olive oil, and the ones existing for table olives determine only some of these compounds [[3], [4], [5],10]. In addition, it must be borne in mind that the composition of polyphenols in table olives differs from the one described for olive oil or unprocessed olives [10]. In this sense, the secoiridoids, oleuropein and ligstroside attain very high concentrations in the raw fruits, and due to their contribution to the bitter taste, they must be removed to render olives suitable for consumption.
So, how much of the secoiridoids removed in table olives? Do we have a substantial duality olive/EVOO in the types of polyphenols? Secoiridoids are one of the most important polyphenols groups in EVOO.
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AnUser
#26
Good point, I’m looking at the polyphenol database, and the total polyphenol count for olives are mostly based on commercial sources: So I believe that number and that it is much greater per kcal.
But the data on individual polyphenols is non-commercial which appears to be non-table olives, like from harvest, so it is harder to believe.
Do Seed Oils Make You Sick?
Critics say they raise your risk for weight gain, heart issues, and more. But the science doesn’t support those claims.
“There’s a lot of confusion about seed oils,” says Dariush Mozaffarian, MD, DrPH, a cardiologist and the Jean Mayer professor of nutrition at Tufts University Friedman School of Nutrition Science & Policy. The internet is full of so-called “experts” citing convincing arguments, he says. “But if you actually read the research, you’ll find that the evidence [against seed oils] is incorrect or incomplete.” It can be tricky filtering out the truth. We looked into the claims to see if you really need an oil change.
https://www.consumerreports.org/health/healthy-eating/do-seed-oils-make-you-sick-a1363483895/
AnUser
#28
What’s in canola oil for example?
Oleic acid 64%… EVOO has 73%.
Saturated fat 7%… EVOO has 14%
Alpha-Linoleic Acid 9%… EVOO has 1%.
Linoleic Acid 19%… EVOO has 10%.
So you’re getting pretty similar Oleic acid, but lower saturated fat, much higher ALA and higher LA.
ALA and LA are both essential fatty acids, Omega-3 and Omega-6.
It’s just scare mongering something that is already similar to EVOO, but has lower saturated fat and more of the essential fats…
Regarding polyphenols: Total polyphenol count of table olives is 20 times higher than even the most premium EVOO when matched for calories.
mccoy
#29
Sometimes it depends on location. I just looked the price up. Canola oil here, in a Mediterranean country, costs twice as the best EVOO I can find, organic with 650 ppm polyphenols. In countries in northern Europe it’s probably the reverse.
I don’t know about flavour, I never had a chance to taste canola. The EVOO I buy is superlative tasting, makes a simple dish of vegetables a specialty.
AnUser
#30
Gil Carvalho earlier in this thread had never bought canola oil before either and he’s from Portugal.
I’d agree EVOO tastes better but I’m unsure if it’s healthier. Especially if you can get total polyphenols from olives. It’s still very good but the saturated fat difference is not unsubstantial, along with it being replaced with polyunsaturated fats which is good for lipids.
mccoy
#31
According to cronometer
100 gr of EVOO= 884 kcal
100 gr of green olives= 145 kcal
Olives have 16.4% the calories of an equal mass of EVOO
Most outstanding polyphenols in EVOO: Hydroxityrosol, tyrosol and Oleoeuropeine.
100 gr of 625 ppm polyphenols EVOO = 62.5 mg polyphenols (this is a rare EVOO, very hi in OOPs).
100 gr of 625 ppm polyphenols Marfil olives = 62.5 mg polyphenols.
Note: according to
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0021967319308192
Marfil olives have 625 ppm EVOO polyphenols (Hydroxityrosol, tyrosol and Oleoeuropeine), or 5 mg each 8 grams of edible portion.
The conclusion would be that Marfil table olives have about the same secoiridoids of a very hi- P EVOO,.but with only 16% the calories.
Considering the quality of the polyphenols, that would be about X6 at equal calories, which is not X20, but remains a good multiplication factor anyway.
A few drawbacks of olives: some secoiridoids like Ligstroside are apparently lost and are only found in EVOO.
But I am convinced now that olives are pretty good as a polyphenols intake, especially so if lower calories are desired than EVOO.
EVOO of course can be used to dress salads and vegetables and to make them delicious (if the quality is good). A major drawback: scams abound in the EVOO market. Lower quality oils are sold like EVOO but they have very few polyphenols. And some true EVOOs have originally not such a high polyphenol content.
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mccoy
#32
Yes, that surprised me not a little, he must have been overly impressed by the studies on canola oil!
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Thorin
#33
A lot of work has been done since the Lyon Diet Heart Study in 1994. I don’t believe that extremely powerful result has been replicated. It sure would be nice if we could give a little dietary counseling and provide some oil to people and reduce 70% of the heart disease in existence.
I refer you to this if you are interested. Redirecting - from 2020. Obviously it is also not the final word on the subject.
Thorin
#34
Here is a balanced take on the topic, I think, given our lack of really solid data. I think the advice given here is reasonable.
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AnUser
#35
The source they used for their attempt at arguing that the LDL increase wasn’t that significant because of the size of the LDL particle that increased, did show an increase in larger LDL particles. Because of that they concluded the increase wasn’t that harmful. However the same source showed an increase in apoB, and they left this out despite another source they used that claimed that larger LDL particles wasn’t that important… also said that apoB is a better measurement of risk than LDL. Whether LDL particle size or apoB is more important is an interesting question. Especially small LDL vs. large LDL, compared with apoB.
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Beth
#36
Do you use water in the pan to sauté with? Garlic or veggies etc? (Not being snarky, seriously asking)
There has been recent news on studies linking seed oils to colon cancer: https://bananomad.com/health-and-fitness/list-of-seed-oils-to-avoid/
AnUser
#38
No it hasn’t, this has already been discussed here:
But welcome to the community.
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