#41

Valter Longo is on Rich Roll today.
I imagine he’ll be discussing his new book, fasting cancer

4 Likes
#42

What do you mean?

Between the two diets, out of 34 comparisons not a single one showed a statistically significant difference between groups. So the fasting mimicking diet did nothing.

Has anyone seen a fasting study showing benefits in humans where there was no statistical difference in bodyweight between groups at the end of the trial?

#43

I notice the FMD versions posted above don’t seem to have any nuts as part of the protocol. I would have thought that a handful of assorted nuts would provide useful micronutrients?

2 Likes
#44

I await an analysis of this study by Matt Kaeberlein or some other similar unbiased expert. He will point out the flaws in this study and explain why it means nothing. I have read much of what Kaeberlein has written about fasting and he believes it has little to no benefit for lifespan in otherwise healthy people. I cannot believe that such a mindbogglingly effective intervention increasing life expectancy 12.5 years has escaped his attention totally. I wish it were true. I know it is not true.

#45

My belief (only) is probably that there is something here. Fasting has great lifespan results for all organisms and I suspect it holds true for humans. Whether the fmd approach captures the benefit seems plausible. The problem is that compliance is awful. If you’ve ever tried the fmd you’ll know its not fun.
300 days of soup eating for 12 years extra life is a decent return. But not many people will actually do it. Even if it is true. Certainly not me.

If the data is to be believed it also suggests that the autophagy only truly kicks in from day four. So halfhearted attempts at intermittent fasting may not really aggregate to very much.

What excited me is understanding the possible mechanism(s) behind the fmd approach. That has encouraged me to try a slightly longer duration of mtor inhibition with rapamycin.

So i now split dose over two consecutive days in an attempt to inhibit mtor1 for 4 days+
it’s all guess work at the moment and half life for rapamycin seems to be variable by individual. But given the 4 day autophagy affect in the data, and the low risk of sides it seems a not unreasonable strategy

2 Likes
#46

The “fast bar” is mainly nuts. If you ever try FMD - the fast bar us the best thing about it. Really easy to make your own

2 Likes
#47

Thanks. The FMD diet package seemed horribly expensive for an upmarket version of “Cuppa Soups”. I cook my own yummy meals and I doubt I’d want to go 4 days on those soups, so possibly I should get one of the FMD diet books and do my own version.

2 Likes
#48

I did the FMD from the get-go. Originally Longo offered advice on doing the meal plan without Prolon. But then he backed off that for various reasons.

My understanding - 2 avocados covers the basic daily calories and proper ratio of carbs/proteins/fats. But the key is low protein. When doing it yourself - you will be surprised at how difficult it is to get protein low enough even with all vegetables. Josh Mitteldorf has a nice site for recipes that foodies will like Recipes for a Fasting-Mimicking Diet

3 Likes
#49

totally agree. This is my cheap DIY version

#50

My gut feeling ( :grinning:) is that fasting has to have some benefits because it has been a significant part of human and pre-human life for a very long time (our hunter-gatherer ancestors went hungry if they couldn’t find food) and many religions have it as part of their practice, so that’s billions of people doing it.

As well as blue zones like the original Ryukan Islanders diet (“Okinawans”) and Mt Athos Monks.

Personally, I fast one day a week (only one meal at about 6 pm) and feel better for it. If I don’t do this my weight creeps up.

I’m not convinced by the blanket negging of some “experts”, but of course that could be confirmation bias on my part.

1 Like
#51

@julianj1 the FMD bars (in kit and sold separately) are macadamia nut based.

#52

It is horribly expensive. BUT. For me, the fact that I paid $150 means I will do it with no cheating or quitting. If I was going my own approach, the temptation to waver would be terrible.

And it’s 4x per year. I’ve decided my time is worth more.

2 Likes
#53

LOL. I do see your point. It’s even more expensive here in the UK.

Napoleon said, “The moral is to the physical as three to one”. What he meant was that psychological factors matter more than physical ones (the word “psychology” hadn’t been invented). So I get what you are saying.

Do you think it is having an effect? The investment of time and money is small compared to the claimed gain, but I feel somewhat sceptical.

1 Like
#54

@julianj1 I have done two FMD rounds so far. The experiences have been similar.

  • breaks all of my habits related to food, both good and bad. Allows me to reshape my eating pattern after I refeed. If you’ve ever felt trapped by an eating / hunger pattern, then you can appreciate the immense psychological value of this “get out of jail free” card
  • enjoyable sense of freedom from decision-making about what to eat and when. I just follow the simple instructions. Think: vacation.
  • lost some weight temporarily (mostly water and bowel contents). Weight loss is not a major focus as it is only 5 days out of 90 days.
  • was able to continue working out as per normal (cardio and strength)…less fatigued the 2nd round
  • I felt I got a “reset” on my immune system. Even though my hsCRP is always <0.3, both rounds stopped all body aches for 1-1.5 months.

All of this is worth the stupid high price for me. Compared to the unknown, unfelt, unseen benefits from supplements I take, this is actually high value.

3 Likes
#55

Haha, I had exactly the same thing.
What if you are already ‘very’ low in weight? I’ve stopped fasting. (Granted, also since I don’t like it, but also given my low weight.) My BP has naturally been low and while fasting I tend to feel very weak. I’m also concerned about muscle loss. Given my low weight I try to prioritise exercise to maintain muscle mass and I felt unable to exercise during fasting. I feel I did lose some muscle both during water fasts and while doing monthly FMD’s. (Plus I mentioned before, but I didn’t feel I benefited from the FMD in the ways I can imagine someone with more body weight would. My ketone levels didn’t come close to ketone levels during a water fast).
But the fasting research is very interesting. So in a way I don’t like that I may be missing out on the many benefits mentioned in for example Longo’s research.

1 Like
#56

In the YouTube video, the best parts start around 59:00 — protein discussion
1:16:00 — the problem of many supplements and short term metrics vs long term results.

Oh that Valter Longo is a faker, crazy man, profiteer! Well, maybe not. TBH, I think Longo is hitting the bullseye on the challenge of protein: muscle/bone vs longevity: need to get the LEAST NECESSARY amino acids to build and retain muscle and bone health. His idea of least necessary may not match up with mine but I exercise far more than he does and I am willing to lose some longevity benefit to be a strong, physically vigorous person for as long as possible.

Be also touches on the challenge of taking lots of supplements and the use of short term markers of health that might not end up matching actual health and longevity. This topic needs to get a lot more attention.

There is about 30 minutes of this video that is worth everybody’s time. I marked the time at the top of this post.

5 Likes
#57

@约瑟夫_拉维尔 Thanks for the above post and your dieting comments. I shall check out the vid and and am considering FMD. Though I think I will make my own food: I don’t think the soup powders would work for me.

2 Likes
#58

I’m fairly certain chatGPT can come up with a number of FMD DIY menu options, I’m sure it can hallucinate, but inputting am the meals into a calorie tracker with the macros should quickly verify it. I’m actually going to try this out. I used to do regular water fasts, but stopped because of muscle loss (measured by DEXA scan). Seems like a fairly painless/cost effective intervention compared to some of the other longevity things like supplements, drugs and red light therapy.

3 Likes