I love this graph, it makes me look extremely healthy. 95th percentile easily. I love competing against the general public.

2 Likes

Me too. I may not be in the top 1% - but the top 2% is within reach.

2 Likes

Wonder what top 99th looks like :slight_smile:

1 Like
1 Like

There was an exchange between Peter and Rhonda in her recent podcast with him where Peter seems to convey in a compelling way that

  • one does not want to overdue “vigorous” exercise vs zone 2 even when goal is VO2 max
    (that Rhonda might have had the amount of time spend on vigorous too high vs the proportion allocated to zone 2)
  • optimal for “vigorous” is to go max for 3-8 min on and then break, rest and repeat and not really the shorter Tabatha / “Peloton class type of shorter interval training
2 Likes

This is an area of hyperbole. Here’s my rant.

A ton of effort has gone into figuring out how to maximize aerobic athletic performance of elite athletes (who are younger than me). —-> which can “sorta” be measured by vo2max (which declines during aging) —-> and low vo2max is associated with sedentary lifestyles and metabolic disease. —> “obviously” increasing vo2max is a good thing.

How maximizing vo2max became the most important thing is hard to understand. I think it’s bull. Have a decent vo2max is a good goal. If it’s low, raise it. If it’s okay, keep it there and focus on other stuff: maintaining speed, strength, balance,

It takes a long time to build the base cardio ability to produce power using fat. This is important because that’s your all day pace. You never run out of fuel (body fat). You never overwhelm your ability to clear lactate and hydrogen ions, so your muscles don’t fail. This is the important part.

You need some HIIT to push the system out of its comfort zone but only a little. What’s too much? You can’t recover in time to do your zone 2 work, your HRV is low, your sleep is poor, etc.

Off the top of my head I’d say:

Vo2max is good because it captures:

  • Muscle ability to burn oxygen
  • Circulatory system for carrying O2 to mitochondria
  • Lung function — diaphragm is a muscle
  • CO2 tolerance — higher is better
  • Mitochondrial health (function, amount) to burn O2
  • Balance of muscle fiber types — want to be strong and durable

Vo2max is bad because it encourages less weight:

  • a lower weight for any reason is good until it is bad
  • Don’t have muscles you don’t use in the test (upper body and lateral movement muscles for cyclists). What muscles do you need for life vs test?
  • A lower bone density means lower weight means higher VO2max. What do you do when you start having fractures? There goes your vo2max efforts.

Even if you eliminate the weight part of the formula, I still don’t think maximizing oxygen utilization is a good goal. Get it to an athletic level and then put your efforts on where you are weak.

It’s the weak link in the chain that matters, not the strongest link.

I do about 5 minutes a week of max (175 bpm) HR work. About an hour of sweetspot (145-150). About 5-6 hours of zone 1 & 2. I also do 3 x 1 hours of weightlifting weekly and I spend 15 min a day on core and mobility.

What’s my vo2max? I’ve never tested it. Maybe I’m wrong but that’s my bet.

13 Likes

Excellent rant. Not quite up there with @desertshores rant wise, but up there :slight_smile:

There is a sort of fetish-sizing of these things like VO2 max or hang time etc. In some ways it distracts people from focusing on easy and sustainable exercise. I like reading about Peter Attias’ views on this - but it seems silly how he applies it to his patients.

2 Likes

I tend to agree with both of you that when these measurements are made into targets they have less value as a measurement.

Speaking personally I last went to the Gym on Monday and I think it pushed up my RHR which is not necessarily a bad thing on a temporary basis, but I have stopped going to the gym until it comes down a bit further. Until I started the metabolic boost linked to going to the gym my rhr was around 49-50 and it seemed to be trending slowly down and in fact I started a mild concern about bradycardia. However, with the metabolic boost it went around 60 and has now come down to 57.

In the end if I have souped up my mitochondria (which is what the objective was) then I am pleased even though it has pushed up my RHR and BP.

2 Likes

If you do all that your VO2 max is most likely very good. I didn’t measure mine as well besides getting it estimated by Apple Watch. I assume that mine is pretty good because I can clean 1 foot of snow on my driveway with a snowblower (it’s “push and pull” resistance training) for 30 min with bmp between 90 -140. It’s an excellent work out. I could do it when I was 40 and at 69 I can still do it. My goal is to be able to do the same things now as I did at 40.

5 Likes

Thanks for sharing these reflections @约瑟夫_拉维尔

What is your protocol for the 5 min max? I’m asking because after a while of only having focused on zone 2 (+ hiking / walking / rucking) and resistance training, I was thinking to add a little bit of max cardio once a week.

1 Like

@Neo My program is to push the pace on a climb or race during a zwift bike ride once per week. I work up to it…I’ll be riding for at least an hour before, and I’ll be progressing through the zones until I’m at a HR of around 140-ish…the. I pick my spot to hit my max HR. I don’t try to stay at my max HR but rather get close and then touch it before backing down.

Long warmup
Do it in a race if possible to make the suffering less noticeable
Do it infrequently (1x/week max) and not in the evening (sleep issues)

Less is more. But none is a mistake.

4 Likes

I talk to Jonah Rosner, former NFL sports scientist turned running scientist and high-performance coach. At 25 he was one of the youngest sports scientists in NFL history for the Houston Texans. He also worked across Major League Soccer at Austin FC, the NBA, and NCAA college basketball at University of Texas where he also received his master’s degree in exercise physiology. Jonah specializes in using the latest sports science technology and testing to individualize strength and endurance training programs.

Show Highlights

  • How to improve your VO2 Max.
  • The best supplements to enhance athletic performance.
  • Will nitrates really improve your endurance?
  • How to use Blood Flow Restriction to boost your training.
  • What is biomechanical feedback and how does it help?
  • The best wearables for performance data.
2 Likes

Another opinion on how to maximize improvements in Vo2 Max

Note that this is not the view of Peter Attia or key leading scientists researching and coaching world top athletes

Think part of it is that interval / zone 4/5 training (less focus on improving / adding mitochondria) while helping to boost VO2max is more of a temporary boost, while for longer, more durable boost to VO2max one wants to optimize mitochondria conditioning which is best done via zone 2.

On the last joint Peter and Rhonda podcast - that I think was recorded after the podcast on intervals above - they have a discussion about this and it seemed liked Peter kind of won Rhonda over to his perspective.

My take is that max intervals / Zone 4-5 training should generally be a part of longevity protocols for healthy people, but probably not be done more than perhaps once a week and if you have more time to invest in your VO2max, use that for more Zone 2 training. (Think @约瑟夫_拉维尔 has shared similar thoughts in the past).

3 Likes

I’m just pulling together ideas on how to optimize my VO2 max this year… I’ll slowly sort through all the research as I progress this year. Another approach…

3 Likes

Blood Test-Based age Acceleration Is Inversely Associated with High-Volume Sports Activity

Conclusions

We develop and apply blood test-based aging clocks to adult athletes and healthy controls. The data suggest that high-volume sports activity is associated with slowed biological aging. Here, we propose an alternative, promising application of routine blood tests.

Paywalled Paper: Blood Test-Based age Acceleration Is Inversely Associated wi... : Medicine & Science in Sports & Exercise

2 Likes

The most important blood test features in age predictions were serum ferritin, mean cell volume, blood urea nitrogen, and albumin levels.

3 Likes

Its a nuisance that they want to charge USD57 for a single copy of this paper. I would not myself mind putting a small amount of cash up to pay for some of these papers if they can be shared as a form of Rapamycin.news library. However, to pay USD57 for one person to read it does not seem value for money.

2 Likes

You can request articles for free here Scholar and someone might be able to get it for you. Worked for me multiple times.

1 Like