#1

I’m starting this thread as a focal point for discussions and investigations around products that work like the Emsculpt products, but which are less expensive or are more cost-effective.

The research seems to suggest that these types of products can be helpful as these types of reviews suggest:

Here: I Tried Emsculpt—a Body-Contouring Device—and Now I Have Actual Abs

Here: Is Emsculpt Worth It? A Review Of The Body-Sculpting Treatment

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From Here: https://www.realself.com/reviews/emsculpt

While the cost of EmSculpt can vary based on location and your provider’s experience, the average cost of a full series of EmSculpt treatments can range anywhere from $3,000 to $4,000.

But there have to be less expensive options. So - lets crowd-source some options in this area.

Used equipment seems to be one option, here some machines are listed from China for about $5,000, but do you trust these resellers (I don’t). Plus, I might consider something like this if we could get them for $1,000 or $2,000…

https://bimedis.com/btl-emsculpt-m488520

Here in the US - I’m amazed at the list prices for these Emsculpt devices:

Sale Price: $85,995

Manufacture Date: 2022
Buyer responsible for recertification
Original Purchase Price: $202,000
BTL List Price: $319,000

but there is a wide range in pricing it seems:

Sale – BTL EMSCULPT NEO

$45,500$19,950

So - if you’re interested in this, please do a little research on competitive products and post what you find here. I find this an interesting area to consider.

These prices are absolutely insane, and while in high-end electronics we frequently have 85% to 95% gross margins on products, I have to believe that this company is even higher than this. Lower priced competitors have to be coming to market with much better products suited to the consumer market…

These seem a little like just extremely expensive, turbo-charged TENs units:

Perhaps the way to get really good deals on this type of things is by lowballing offers in auctions, as @Joseph has done…

emsculpt-muscle-growth-and-apoptosis-copy.pdf (160.3 KB)

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#2

Judging from the lawsuit below, Rejuva Fresh is one company that is competing with Emsculpt…

Rejuva_DME-1-23-cv-00032-1.pdf (1.9 MB)

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#3

And this general class of product seems to be “EMMS” for Electromagnetic Muscle Stimulation devices. (so this is what to search for, for finding competitive products).

Lasers Surg Med - 2020 - Zachary - Clinical Study Demonstrates that Electromagnetic Muscle Stimulation Does Not Cause.pdf (536.3 KB)

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#4

And what looks to be a chinese knockoff of the Emsculpt system:

and $3,000 here:

https://www.dhgate.com/product/4-handles-muscle-building-body-hit-shaping/672059101.html

and a smaller version for $1,600

or $2,700 on aliexpress

https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256803199624448.html

美容仪器 Competitor.pdf (394.3 KB)

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#5

What is your intention? Are you tired of lifting? Find the results of lifting inadequate? Trying to build muscles in hard to access (difficult muscles to use because of range of motion issues) areas?

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#6

I posted this on the Bryan Johnson thread, but I’ll post it here also:

I’ve been taking the perspective that this type of device is similar in concept to blood flow restriction training: Blood Flow Restriction Muscle Training for the Intervention of Sarcopenia

Or even using an electric toothbrush vs. manual toothbrush.

In all these cases it would seem to make the process / time investment of something that you need to do, more productive. If a device such as an Emscuplt, if cheap enough, can replace a portion of my existing weight lifting or resistance exercise routine with something more productive, then I’m interested in it (as weight lifting and resistance exercise is probably my least enjoyable activity (I’d much rather be out mountain bike riding, kayaking, rock climbing, etc.).

The reviews and ratings by people seem to suggest it is effective at doing what it claims; providing some significant workout of certain sets of muscles. But, i’ve not read any independent research on these types of devices or the processes / mechanisms by which they work, but will definitely do so as part of the review process.

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#7

Terms in the industry seem to refer to these types of devices as EMMS, EMS or also high-intensity focused electromagnetic field (HIFEM) technology, and Functional magnetic stimulation (FMS). I’m not sure if there are differences or distinctions between these terms.

Here is some (what seems at first glance to be reasonably good - but some commercial interests so be skeptical) research on this type of muscle stimulation. It seems valuable for a few areas; abs, glutes, and pelvic floor strengthening (mostly for women after having children).

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#8

From my research in Spain second hand machines ( nor Emsculpt but alternatives) cost still at least 3000 euros ; a new one at least 7000 euros plus taxes )

I have never seen a commercial for those machines ; just saw them in rather higher”end aesthetic salons and have done 3 times 15 treatments (with 4 handles simultaneously) in 1,5 year time ; reading the threads here I thought I ‘d check out AliExpress and prices are great but obviously could be risky .

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#9

From what I understood from the practitioner asking her, ( for what it is worth) HIFEM would be stronger and go deeper ; while EMS devices would only work more superficially: eg Compex and Powerdot are such EMS devices and for use at home … ( and much cheaper obviously)

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#10
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#11
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#12
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#13

I finally found a meta-analysis of the studies that had been done on this type of technology.

Sadly, most of the studies are done by people working with the companies… so a very strong likelihood of bias (or cherry-picking the data).

As I look around I find it really hard to find anything on this technology or products that isn’t marketing and sales information… which seems likely to be vastly overstated (all the companies/groups/people are trying to make money from the service or devices).

Energy-based treatments include ultrasound, lasers, cryolipolysis, and radiofrequency. The most recent energy treatment for noninvasive body contouring is electromagnetic treatments—a hot topic in plastic surgery today. A systematic review to assess efficacy and safety has not been published.

“Almost all studies were authored by medical advisors for the device manufacturer.”

Discussion

Measurement data show small reductions in fat thickness, occurring almost immediately after the treatments. Adipocyte removal without tissue swelling would be unique among energy-based treatments. Similarly, muscle hypertrophy is not known to occur acutely after exercise; muscle swelling likely accounts for an early increment in muscle thickness. Any improvement in the diastasis recti is likely fictitious.

Conclusions

Electromagnetic treatments, either administered alone or in combination with radiofrequency, are safe. However, the evidence for efficacy is tenuous. Measured treatment effects are very small (<5 mm). Conflict of interest and publication bias are major factors in studies evaluating energy-based alternatives. The evidence-based physician may not be satisfied that an equivocal treatment benefit justifies the time and expense for patients.

Source: A Systematic Review of Electromagnetic Treatments for Body Contouring - PMC

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#14

Had been reading that this afternoon and was just about to share it.

What about N=1s - who here on the forum have tried this, what are you experiences?

(And/or anyone have friends who have tried, their experience?)

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#15

Just took over a second hand Ema sculpt machine from medical / aesthetic centre close to me in Spain which is getting rid of their aesthetic equipment to focus on longevity (curious to meet their “ new” doctor in September).

I had been looking into buying this machine which I tried in another centre (cost of this machine in Spain when new turned out to be 7000 euros plus taxes; renting was 600 euros / month with a minimum rent of 6 months; btw it has the exact screen as the one of Bryan Johnson in one of his videos and to one of those sold in US with one handle in the YouTube videos Kandice sent; other characteristics seem more or less the same as the machines in the YouTube videos, 7 Tesla, 300MS 2500 watt) and this is a machine with 4 handles and RF: it is of November 2022 under guarantee until November 2025 so I guessed I couldn’t do much wrong buying it for 3000 euros (6 sessions with the same 4 handles machine, but older version, costed me 300 euros and 15 sessions 600).

I felt it had enhancing effects combined with exercise but not in periods when I didn’t exercise at all (although it still felt nice during and afterwards).

Will try to be consistent and use it for 6 months (ideally twice a week, 30 minutes per body part , on days I don’t or cannot exercise) and then evaluate whether to keep it… On the downside is that it takes more space than I thought; also of course putting it on yourself is not as relaxing as having someone strapping you in / placing it on you; but I gain time as I can do it at home and anytime, I will save money if I will use it consistently and with 4 handles I can treat more parts at the same time. It also includes a 5th handle for pelvic floor treatment which I never tried before. Today I used it by merely placing it in my chair and sitting on it while working on computer (put the machine on little table with wheels so I can easily move it around as it weighs around 40 kg); will try later if I can do the same for glutes.

Anyway after it got delivered in my enthusiasm I tried everything out and basically treated all possible body parts in different sessions (too much but wanted to check and try everything :sweat_smile:) and now feeling really exhausted as if I have been out hiking all day :hot_face::joy::rofl:.

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#16

Well done! Please do keep us informed as you see results or not over time. $3,000 seems like a pretty good price. Have you ever done a DEXA scan? It would be interesting to compare muscle pre and post use of the equipment.

#17

I have some shoulder problems, so instead of pushups and chin-up I do isometrics, with surprisingly good results. Squeeze the muscles repeatedly–chest, arms, shoulders, buttocks–for 12 reps or so and then hold the final squeeze for 12 seconds more. That’s one set. Most of the devices described above operate on the same principle–contraction and relaxation of the muscle.

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#18

There was a study recently that found in favour of isometrics.

Found it:

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#19

thank you for the encouragement; much appreciated (my partner and a friend both called me crazy…;-). I will look into getting such a scan (although, given the holiday season and the excruciating heat here now, it might take some time to get an appointment); thank you for this excellent suggestion. I took pictures yesterday 3 August.

BTW I can totally agree with Desertshores’ critical comments on this in another thread but while I am absolutely not overweight, it seems I just cannot get better my abdomen doing (even a lot of) exercise so instead of dedicating more money and time, my idea is to be consistent with the machine and see if it can give me the final boost I apparently need. I have done some intermittent fasting periods (17 hour window) and lost bodyfat but noticed my muscles got weaker and I felt like I lost a lot of strength in general. I also felt being less productive at work (although generally apparently the opposite would happen). I have a 5 day dr. Walter Longo fast-mimicking pack to give this a try but will do when I won’t be able to exercise at all, as he advises not to exercise during those 5 days.

For what it is worth (and surely a placebo effect) : I am a bad sleeper and in summer due to heat my sleep is even worse, but yesterday (after my intense HIFEM sessions) I slept reasonably well despite my rapamycin yesterday and I did not have to pee once during the night. Hope this will turn out to be a true effect…

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#20

How’s the experiment going so far? I’ve got my eye on one of those machines but not ready to pull the trigger.

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