#3

Does it need to be? I am not sure that a placebo group could alter the effects of arteriosclerosis through sheer willpower.

2 Likes
#4

Thank you mTORdocTOR and Joseph for this information.

1 Like
#5

Confused, by what mechanism is nattokinase able to lower lipids?

#6

Yes, you are ignoring other important things like randomization and placebo might make the participant do other changes.

#7

This was the study that made me think Natto might not work:

But they used 2000fu.

Lustgarten does a chapter on the effects of LDL, HDL, CRP and fibrinogen. He concludes by saying"

When considering that fibrinogen levels are significantly correlated with the amount of bacteria found in blood, these data collectively support the hypothesis that CRP,LDL, and fibrinogen may increase during aging to protect against an increased microbial burden, but with the negative consequence of contributing to cardiovascular disease.

So it is a tough call on what to do here.

Also I don’t know of any randomized controlled studies on Rapa in humans and longevity. Yet it is known to be pretty safe. So it is your life and your gamble.

1 Like
#8

FWIW

Will be taking12,000FU{4,000FU per capsules 3x) per day.

Just waiting for the delivery.

Anyone taking Nattokinase? Why not?
#9

Just curious why you didn’t go with Lumbrokinase? Everything I read was pretty positive.

#10

I have taken other compounds {a serrapeptase and nattokinase mix, “Neprinol AFD”) on and off for the past year.

The nattokinase amount in the mix is low.

Was not aware untill recently of the lumbrokinase.

Will most likely get some lumbrokinase.

And use all three; serrapeptase, nattokinase and lumbrokinase.

1 Like
#11

I’ll repeat my concern that nattokinase and serrapeptase may not to be very effective unless they are enteric coated. I won’t offer an opinion on lumbrokinase except to say that I’d want to see considerable evidence of safety before I used it routinely. Nattokinase and serrapeptase have been used by many people for many years, but IIRC lumbrokinase is significantly more potent as a thrombolytic agent, and there are good reasons (i.e. hemorrhages, including hemorrhagic stroke) why you might not want to use such agents casually.

6 Likes
#12

The Safety and Tolerability of Lumbrokinase DLBS1033 in Healthy Adult Subjects

And

A Clinical Trial on Biological Half Life of Bioactive Protein from Lumbricus rubellus, DLBS1033 in Healthy Volunteers

#13

Both studies too small, first had 20 people, second 14 people.
At this point it seems like a weird alternative medicine supplement. Like sold on infomercials.
The optics aren’t great.

#14

Efficacy and safety of lumbrokinase plus aspirin versus aspirin alone for acute ischemic stroke (LUCENT): study protocol for a multicenter randomized controlled trial

#15

8.6 hours in case anybody’s interested but does not want to read.

#16

Still another supplement when taken in the therapeutic range causes me excessive gassiness, along with Acarbose, trehalose, erythritol, etc.

Unfortunately, maybe because I am old, there are many supplements cannot take because they mess with my digestive system. What I can take daily without the digestive consequences that some others experience is up to two tbsps of EVOO and C8 oil.
So I will be skipping Nattokinase

#17

desertshores, review William Davis’s book Super Gut.

Attached is a PDF copy

Super Gut A Four-Week Plan to Reprogram Your Microbiome, Restore Health, Lose Weight (William Davis).pdf (3.6 MB)

2 Likes
#18

The dose required for it to be effective are high, and judging by the price, that would be an expensive way to prevent ascvd. We’re also not sure if this is a dirty drug, meaning if it has any offtargets effects.

1 Like
#19

$22.00 for a 40 day supply at 12,000FU per day is expensive?

.55¢ a day for 12,000FU

#20

Oh nice! I was going off what I saw from Amazon. Thanks for the correction

#22

Bestvite, no the product is in capsules.

#23

Thanks, I’ll give it a read.