My experience (and I probably take more melatonin than maybe everyone on this site at between1 and 2 grams a night) is that I have a good HbA1c (under 5) and my glucose varies with rapamycin, but without rapamycin is good.
I also was wearing a CGM once when I experimented with some time released melatonin whilst I was asleep and saw a drop in glucose (I think the main effects that cause this are a reduction in cortisol).
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Tim
#22
Mirtazipine is used off-label for insomnia. Very effective.
LukeMV
#23
It’s also important to remember that consumerlab is only referring to large melatonin doses that are found in 99% of supplements and not the microdoses that resemble or replace what a healthy human is supposed to produce naturally.
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I have an issue as to how the calculations are done about normal human melatonin production
I have been taking megadoses of melatonin daily for decades, and I have never noticed any adverse effects on my blood glucose levels.
The reports otherwise are junk science.
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What brand of melatonin do you use? I would actually like to take more, but I also need to keep my costs down.
I use a number of brands. You can get powder quite cheaply, but as far as pills go NatureBell 20mg are the cheapest per gram. However, there are 60mg tablets available and you don’t need to eat as many.
I had some fun drinking a couple of grams of melatonin I had dissolved in some glen morangie malt whisky which definitely put me to sleep around 1pm.
However, I think the 60mg tablets are the best for quantity of melatonin per tablet.
Vitamatic
I want to have a go with some more powder and possibly whisky, but maybe just water although it does not dissolve in water. However, I am not sure about the quality of the powder and have other things to do.
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Thanks for the references and info. I’m currently using 60mg gelcaps:
Amazon.com: Fogoro Melatonin 60mg-Fall
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If you want to get the cost down you will have to find a way of using powder. I got some really cheap powder from India, but want to test it somehow. I think the source should be OK. However, I am happy with my current options. I also have some powder that I am more certain about.
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LukeMV
#30
Do you guys notice anything subjective or different on your biomarkers when using 60mg or similar of melatonin? I’ve always been afraid to try it
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Dr Reiter (the godfather of melatonin) says melatonin is a very safe chemical. There is no fatal dose. Reiter says he has taken between 75-200mg/day over the last 15 years. Mostly at the lower end. He only takes during the day if he is ill.
Check him out.
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I don’t notice anything other than I don’t seem to get the flu anymore.
I use high-dose melatonin for viral and cancer prevention. Here’s the video that got me started down the anti-cancer path:
High Dose Melatonin Therapy: An Ideal Adjuvant Anti-Cancer Therapy
And this is the video about anti-viral benefits and the use of high-dose melatonin for treating long covid:
Doris Loh - Melatonin and Phase Separation
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Vlasko
#33
“turmeric, ashwagandha, horsetail, saw palmetto, kelp, and resveratrol — all of which may cause liver toxicity”
All of which are very popular herbal supplements taken by millions of people around the world every day who see no increase in liver enzymes or even have improved liver function. Sometimes, as with ashwagandha, some of these reports are the result of people preparing the plant on their own and using parts of the plant not generally used while manufacturing a supplement.
But there is a faction who would like to point to rare adverse events and lobby lawmakers to ban our access to dietary supplements without a doctor’s prescription. And I am 100% opposed to that. A good percentage of liver toxicity from these cases are also from people overdosing. Common with people desperate to lose weight or put on muscle. That happened with people after Oprah mentioned green tea for weight loss. And there are people who took so much turmeric their skin turned orange.
Rapamycin has also been associated with rare hepatotoxicity. “Instances of cholestatic hepatitis have been reported with sirolimus use, but the clinical features of the clinically apparent liver injury due to this agent have not been well defined.”
When enough people take any drug or supplement, at some point there will be someone allegedly having a severe reaction. I’m more concerned about how rare such events are.
I don’t know about calcium or vitamin E, but are the others due to people taking synthetic versions?
Synthetic versions may be more popular in multivitamins or or other methods, and synthetic versions may be straight up toxic… but that can possibly go for a lot vitamins you can take I think… Thats why I straight up avoid multivitamins not take take synthetic versions that may be toxic
though I dont know the dose in high dose you are referring
Just because a supplement doesn’t cause a bad reaction or side effect doesn’t mean it can’t for others. It’s best to know what could happen even if it only affects a small percentage of the population.
It’s like peanut allergies. I love peanut butter sandwiches, which’re great for me, but that isn’t true for everyone. ConsumerLab issued these warnings as a precaution for the subset of the population that may be affected by them.
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mccoy
#36
After having read all the above, I think there is some truth in all positions. Supplements can exhibit toxicity, but that is usually due to high dosage in the context of individual setup. And some of’em (the cite St. John’s Wort) do impinge on cytochrome metabolism or interfere with anticoagulants, so at the end it’s the user’s responsibility to gather specific info or ask a competent person.
But in the context of this forum, I believe there are no problems whatsoever, barring some individual allergic reaction or sensitiveness to particular molecules.
We all know that the literature is replete with proper dosages, upper tolerable doses, effects on liver metabolism, interference with pharmaceuticals. For example, green tea has been cited previously, here we have the scientific opinion of the EFSA, which suggests an upper bound of 800 mg/d green tea catechins. The potential hepatotoxicity is related to the potential presence of pyrrolizidine alkaloids. The European regulations forbid the use of supplements with more than 800 mg green tea polyphenols per daily portion. Monographies on supplements usually report the dosages used in the literature and an advised range or optimum dosage. There may be a lack of info on some less popular supplements and this would suggest more caution.
https://efsa.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/epdf/10.2903/j.efsa.2018.5239
On the basis of the information available, the Panel concluded that catechins from green teainfusion, prepared in a traditional way, and reconstituted drinks with an equivalent composition totraditional green tea infusions, are in general considered safe according to the presumption of safetyapproach, provided the intake corresponds to reported intakes in European Member States. However,rare cases of liver injury have been reported after consumption of green tea infusions, most probablydue to an idiosyncratic reaction.Based on the available data on the potential adverse effects of green tea catechins on the liver, thePanel further concluded that there is evidence from interventional clinical trials that intake of dosesequal or above 800 mg EGCG/day taken as a food supplement statistically significant increase serumtransaminases in treated subjects compared to control
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mccoy
#37
In addition to the above, everyone of us can also listen to what AIs have to say on a particular supplement. I used Gemini, Google’s AI, that sent back to these suggestions, the cited EFSA and a PubMed article. OF course that’s only a starting point. But as we all know, we may become more specific after every result and sometimes obtain reasonably accurate answers (taking care to discard the possible hallucinations).
This is for informational purposes only. For medical advice or diagnosis, consult a professional.
Here are some studies that support the upper tolerable dose of green tea extract as 300 mg of EGCG per day:
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Safety assessment of green tea based beverages and dried green tea extracts as nutritional supplements: This study, published in PubMed, reviewed the safety of green tea and its extracts. It concluded that a tolerable upper intake level of 300 mg EGCG per day was safe for food supplements.
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EFSA assesses safety of green tea catechins: The European Food Safety Authority (EFSA) conducted a safety assessment of green tea catechins, including EGCG. They determined that doses of EGCG above 800 mg per day may pose health risks, but they did not identify a safe dose below this level. However, they noted that clinical studies have shown no adverse effects at doses below 600 mg per day.
Blockquote Here are some potential side effects:
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Digestive Issues: High doses of green tea extract can lead to gastrointestinal problems like nausea, vomiting, diarrhea, and abdominal pain.
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Nervous System Stimulation: The caffeine content in green tea extract can cause side effects such as anxiety, insomnia, restlessness, and rapid heart rate.
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Liver Damage: In rare cases, high doses of green tea extract have been linked to liver damage. 1 However, this is usually associated with excessive consumption or underlying liver conditions.
[
- Green tea extract–associated acute liver injury: Case report and review - PMC
](Green tea extract–associated acute liver injury: Case report and review - PMC)
pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
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I only replied because it was an unnecessary scare tactic causing alarm among the untold millions taking melatonin nightly.
Of course, you could make the case that any substance is dangerous to some small subset of the population.
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Good point. When I posted it, I didn’t want to scare anyone. I just wanted people to look at their labwork to see if their blood glucose was being affected.
I personally believe that melatonin is safe. I take it myself.
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Doris Loh says melatonin reduces insulin secretion as a way to preserve blood glucose for the brain during sleep. She also says melatonin is good for a lot (such as killing viral infections, stopping cancer) and we should take a lot (some exceptions). She takes it when she wants an energy boost. She makes it sound like methylene blue (my interpretation) in terms of a nootropic effect caused by improving mitochondrial production of ATP and elimination of ROS.
I use it daily but haven’t been able to increase my dosing to more than 20mg / day yet.
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