I don’t think Ethoxydiglycol is available in a food grade. Since you are basically using it “topically” and spitting most of it out, I would not worry too much about that aspect.
The key to this one is “dose”
|Designated as safe for general or specific, limited use in food | US Food and Drug Administration (FDA)|
https://cosmetics.specialchem.com/inci-ingredients/ethoxydiglycol
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Pupcuts
#167
Thank so much for the reply. So this is the same one everyone else has used for their toothpaste then?
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Yes, I think so. I use it for skin cream and toothpaste.
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sol
#169
My lazy approach is to put a flat of toothpaste on my brush (I don’t use much), then a drop or two of my (water-based) rapa serum (with transcutol) on top. It mixes in mouth. 
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Pupcuts
#170
Great! And I am so glad you mentioned skin cream as that is my next endeavor. Do you by chance have a recipe for the skin cream on here?
I just found the skin cream thread but am still figuring out how to get around in here.
Thanks!
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Just use the search tool (magnifying glass icon) in the upper right corner of the screen to search for whatever you want: DIY Rapamycin skin cream
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Pupcuts
#172
So basically from what am reading both here and in the DIY skin lotion section the object of the game is to use as little transcutol as possible? Just enough to make a slurry of the crushed pills?
Yes - that is my approach at least.
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Couldn’t you dissolve in a small amount of DMSO and then mix the solution into the mouth rinse/mouthwash?
So you just dissolve the rapa pills and water and add that to your toothbrush?
LaraPo
#176
I wouldn’t like to put any amount of DMSO into my mouth.
sol
#177
So you just dissolve the rapa pills and water and add that to your toothbrush?
No. I put 1-2 drops of my rapa serum onto the toothbrush.
That serum is crushed-into-powder rapa pills mixed with transcutol, then diluted with water. I aim for ~30% transcutol, ~70% distilled water.
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You “could” but most of us here don’t because transcutol seems to be the best option and DMSO has some risks as seen below:
Some information I saw recently in a book on cosmetic dermatology that covered the excipients like transcutol and DMSO. See the bold comment on DMSO below. Here is an excerpt:
“Penetration enhancers
In this section, the influence of PEs on the diffusion coefficient and solubility of the active in the stratum corneum is evaluated. The use of topically applied chemical agents (surfactants, solvents, emollients) is a well‐known technique to modify the stratum corneum and also modify the chemical potential of selected actives. Collectively, these materials can be referred to as PEs. Based on the chemical structure, PEs can be categorized into several groups such as fatty acids, fatty alcohols, terpene fatty acid esters, and pyrrolidone derivatives [13]. PEs commonly used in skin care products have well‐known safety profiles but their ability to enhance penetration of an active is challenging because of the manifold ingredients used in many formulations.
Chemical enhancers
They are also known as absorption promoters and accelerants which are “pharmacological inert, nontoxic, nonirritating, nonallergic, rapid onset of action, and suitable duration of action, inexpensive and cosmetically acceptable [14].” A number of solvents (e.g. ethanol, propylene glycol, Transcutol® [Gattefossé, Saint‐Priest, France], and N‐methyl pyrrolidone) increase permeant partitioning into and solubility within the stratum corneum, hence increasing KP in Fick’s equation (equation 9.1). Ethanol was the first PE cosolvent incorporated into transdermal systems [15]. Synergistic[…]” “Synergistic effects between enhancers (e.g. Azone® [PI Chemicals, Shanghai, China], fatty acids) and more polar cosolvents (e.g. ethanol, propylene glycol) have also been reported suggesting that the latter facilitates the solubilization of the former within the stratum corneum, thus amplifying the lipid‐modulating effect. Similarly, solvents such as Transcutol are proposed to act by improving solubility within the membrane rather than by increasing diffusion. Another solvent, dimethylsulfoxide (DMSO), by contrast, is relatively aggressive and induces significant structural perturbations such as keratin denaturation and the solubilization of membrane components [16]. Table 9.2 is a list of the more commonly utilized chemical PEs.”
Excerpt From Book:
Cosmetic Dermatology, Draelos, Zoe Diana;
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I don’t disagree with your sentiment but when significantly diluted it won’t penetrate the skin and there is another but… I’m guessing the lining of the mouth is a bit more penetrable that the skin on your arm but not by much.
Less than 60% DMSO has a hard time penetrating the skin. In a mixture where it is used to dissolve 1 compound it would would depend on the total weight of the preparation. If you were making 60 gm of toothpaste with 1.0% rapamycin (0.6mg) you might have less than 2% DMSO.
For the amount used to dissolve Rap in a skin creme or toothpaste, it’s most likely inconsequential.
This one is on my to-do list I bought some bulk powder Rap a while ago for this but never got around to it.
Agetron
#180
ANNOUNCED A year ago - wonder when we will see updates - human clinical trial for rapamycin’s effect on teeth and mouth is going to happen. Matt Kaeberlein’s Assistant Jonathon An, Ph.D. at UW.
Link: UW periodontal study receives FDA approval for anti-aging drug use - UW School of Dentistry.
The FDA will look at the effects of rapamycin on participants’ periodontal disease, but as the first FDA-approved study to use rapamycin, other research groups will have a keen interest in a variety of its outcomes.
Jonathon An was the one to compare rat peridontal disease in aging to be like humans in aging. The rats had a reversal of peridontal disease and teeth bone regrew!
A very measureable end-point for human, non-organ replacement, use of rapamycin.
Also earlier this month I saw my dentist for a cleaning - she noted that 4 areas of #4 peridontal disease was noted a year ago in x-rays. All repaired and healthy at this visit. Mouth all #3 normal - healthy. I attribute the reversal to a combination of rapamycin and taurine use the past year.
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Pupcuts
#181
@RapAdmin - Oh my gosh! So excited! i just made my first batch of toothpaste. I took your suggestion and used 100 pills instead of 10. I used 2 teaspoons (10 ML) of transcutol. Was afraid it might be a little too runny but ended up being glad i did as, like you said, it was a bit of a challenge mixing it into the toothpaste. I got a stronger handheld mixer from Amazon like you suggested and it made it through but even on high it slowed down a bit powering through the thick parts.
What was interesting to me was that the outer film on the rapacan (Eris) that I used was really tough. You cant see it when you look at the pill but believe me it’s there. I too had pieces of the outer shell left. It ended up straining it thru a tea strainer. The powder fell thru and the weird looking outer part stayed in the strainer. It looked sort of like rice paper but was almost impossible to crush. I added a couple pictures to show what i mean.
I also got my teeth cleaned about 3 weeks ago and my hygienist took some measurements of my gum pockets. She is very interested to see if this works. She gave me a curved plastic hypo and i am going to try squirting some of the rapa in between my teeth on the really recessed ones. Once i floss and rinse all of it will come out i am sure but maybe it will help. Also using 100 pills and 2 teaspoons of transcutol makes too much toothpaste to all fit back in the jar so Im glad i got that from her.
Thank you again for taking the time to post this!
Fingers crossed my dental numbers are better in 6 months or a year!
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I have made a lot of progress on my gums. Oddly enough the first thing that really reduced inflammation was sucking melatonin at night.
I think the mechanistic theory is that the gums are fighting hard against all sorts of infections. This, therefore, causes more ROS than you get in other cells ordinarily and that damages the mitochondria. Hence if you can protect against the ROS (melatonin) and improve the mitochondria (Rapamycin and potentially other things) then you can stop further recession and actually reduce pockets. It remains useful to do proper dental hygiene, but systemic and topical Rapamycin clearly has potential.
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Pupcuts
#183
Interesting about the melatonin. What is ROS?
I recently began putting a dental probiotic in my cheek and just letting it melt there overnight at someone’s suggestion. Very interested in all these hacks for your teeth and gums. And am also happy to find my dental hygienist is encouraging this and interested in the results. Cant wait for July to see if there are any changes yet!
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Jay
#185
Sol, I like your idea. It appears to be less messy than the method I’ve been using. Tell me how much (of each) of Rapamycin, water, and transcutol you use in your rapa serum and how many drops you put on your toothpaste. That will save me the time required to think through the problem. Yes! I’m the typical male … lazy!
