#61

Yes:
Transcutol’s relative density (water = 1): 0.99, so we will just assume 1 for simplicity.
My latest solution is 12 mg rapamycin in 100 grams of water. .012/100 = .012%

From Dr. Greene’s website: “I use a much stronger preparation (15 capsules in 3.5 Oz to make a 0.045% ointment for age-related and solar related lesions on my scalp with good effect”

Since I suffer from chronic actinic keratosis caused by sun-damaged skin, I am gradually working my way up to the dosage Dr. Greene uses on himself.

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#62

How many men use skin cream? I’m always going to mix my rapamycin in cream. Even if the rapamycin does nothing, from the skin cream alone, I will be ahead of 98% of the men.

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#63

Desertshores, are you massaging the spray into your scalp after you spray it? What’s the rationale for believing that adding a moisturizing cream would inhibit rather than enhance penetration into the skin?

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#64

So, were you thinking of just replacing the DMSO with the 20-30% of transcutol in the aloe gel? You can purchase DMSO gel, so what do you think of just putting the rapamycin into the DMSO gel? If you look at the ingredients it is primarily DMSO, with aloe gel and carbomer. DMSO 4 oz. Gel Three Jar special Non-diluted 99.995% Low Odor Pharma G

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#65

dashtonb, your post coincides with my switching from transcutol to DMSO. Six or seven weeks ago, I started applying the approximately four ounce mix of aloe gel with transcutol and three mg of rapamycin to my knees. It wasn’t doing anything that I could detect, so when I ran out, I made a new batch with DMSO instead of transcutol - about four ounces, probably fifteen or twenty percent DMSO, the rest of the bulk made up of aloe gel with three mg of rapamycin. The first application of the new mix was yesterday.

DMSO probably penetrates better than transcutol, but is also used for relief of joint soreness on its own, so I was originally trying to check out the action of rapamycin without any effect DMSO might contribute. No doubt, I didn’t give the original mix a fair trial when I gave up on transcutol so soon, but what can you do when youthful impulsiveness takes over?

No reason why the gel you’re looking at shouldn’t work. The whole thing is DMSO which is a lot more potent than the fraction I’m using. That would certainly penetrate to the targeted knee tissues. From other posts about DMSO on the site, I’d guess that there could be some systemic absorption too. If you were concerned about that, you could always dilute it with some plain aloe gel

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#66

A YouTube video would be a great!

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#67

I believe any gel, lotion, etc is just going to interfere with the absorption of the rapamycin’
Whether you transcutol or DMSO is up to you. A mixture of DMSO or Transcutol, water, and rapamycin filtered through a fine metal sieve and then transferred to a small spray bottle will deliver the rapamycin to the treatment area with the least amount of waste.

Unless you are using pure rapamycin powder, I would use Transcutol.

If you are trying to deliver rapamycin into the bloodstream then use DMSO

The problem with DMSO is it will carry contaminants into the bloodstream just as it does rapamycin. Since I don’t know what the filler materials are in rapamycin tablets, I prefer transcutol. Plus, I find Transcutol much more pleasant than DMSO
(note: Rapa/Admin first suggested Transcutol as a substitute for DMSO)

Trancutol:
“This excipient offers advantages over other enhancers for it is clear (transparent) non-volatile and nearly odorless. Unlike oleic acid, azone, and DMSO, Transcutol® does not compromise the integrity of the skin structures.”

" Transcutol® has a fully established safety profile."

“It is therefore postulated that the ability of Transcutol to readily penetrate the stratum corneum and strongly interact with the water of the intercellular path is what makes Transcutol unique when compared to other solvents that modify skin permeation.”

“With superior solubilization power, unique physicochemical properties, and well-established safety profile, it is an ideal penetration/permeation enhancer.”

An example of rapamycin with Transcutol being used as a treatment for skin disease:

“Thus, rapamycin was solubilized in a solvent (Transcutol®), which is an excellent permeation agent that enhances drug diffusion through the skin [30].”

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#68

desertshores, I’m just making it up as I go along, slopping together an approximation of what others here have done and wouldn’t suggest that anyone follow my example.

Some products meant for skin application tout their absorption qualities, including some creams and aloe gels. I don’t know if they are truthful and have no strong opinions on it. Your point of view sounds reasonable to me as does theirs. I already have a mix that I’m using, so will continue on with it to see what happens. One thing about a gel is that it will keep particles in suspension, evenly, throughout.

DMSO can carry contaminants with it. Because of that, I’m trying to be sure that my knees and hands are very clean when applying and rubbing in the mixture. Your caution about fillers is noted and I’m willing to chance it.

I’m targeting the tissues inside my knees, not the skin. I haven’t seen any progress with transcutol, and have intended all along to eventually switch to DMSO for its likely greater penetration qualities. As I mentioned above, six or seven weeks probably isn’t long enough to really check out transcutol as a carrier of rapamycin, but when it came time to make a new batch, I decided to go ahead and go with DMSO.

The amount of DMSO in the mix is small enough, I would hope, that not much would get into the bloodstream. However, if DMSO were that dangerous, I think we would know about a big bunch of medical tragedies and it wouldn’t be sold over the counter.

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#69

FWIW

I post the following several times on this forum, different threads.

Review link below, I post a PDF copy of the medical book on DMSO - real medical book, not a consumer book.

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#70

Thanks Joseph. From reading a few paragraphs here and there, I get the impression that DMSO may be therapeutic beyond providing temporary pain relief and helping absorption of other drugs.

There’s a lot to read and its language is scientific enough that it’ll be slow going for me, but I will spend some time with it. In the meantime, can you hit a few high points?

#71

As I said, I have no problem with DMSO especially if you are trying to use it for something other than skin improvement. It has a good safety record if used carefully.

#72

desertshores, I can feel a sort of itching/tingling on the skin of my knees with the DMSO gel which wasn’t there with transcutol. It’s not uncomfortable, but I can see where it might be when used on more sensitive areas.

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#73

While DMSO can have the beneficial effects you described it also DISSOLVES COLLAGEN in the skin. My guess is this will not be the effect that I want for my rapamycin skin care.

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#74

dashtonb, that doesn’t sound good. There’s a lot of info out there with equations, words and references unfamiliar to any but the initiated. What little I was able to glean seemed to indicate that DMSO reformed collagen structurally and that was good - it got rid of disorganization that had arisen. Or maybe it was bad and the good was the confirmation of the researchers’ theories.

If it is dissolving collagen in the skin around my knees and that’s bad thing, it may be helping in other ways. Here’s something I copied from one article:

“DMSO has been shown to help resolve tissue inflammation through increased blood flow and promote vascular dilation. DMSO causes collagen dissolution, which may help to restore pliability to fibrosed tissues. Topical application of DMSO solution, in rabbits, reduced ankle stiffness in a fracture model of arthritis. Both the anti-inflammatory and anti-arthritic effects of DMSO appear to be more effective when used to treat acute versus chronic inflammatory conditions.”

Doesn’t restoration of pliability sound like a desirable effect?

I don’t really know any more than I did before. Could you expand a little on DMSO and collagen dissolution?

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#75

argonaut, from what I read part of the solution for restoring the pliability of fibrosed tissues is indeed the dissolution of collagen. An element of fibrosis is myofibroblasks which activates collagen secretion which is a main part in the overgrown and hardened fibrotic tissues. So, DMSO has the beneficial effect of removing those tissues through collagen dissolution to clear away the thickened and scarred tissues. All good for repairing the tissue damage by removing it, which includes the collagen, but maybe not what I am looking for in improving my general skin texture.

#76

Agree. Before I got the DMSO I ordered Ethoxydiglycol from Lotion Crafter - 4 oz for $7.95. I bought two of them - no tax and shipping was $6.19.

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#77

desertshores, when I disregarded the issue of filler that you mentioned, I didn’t realize that you had provided an easy solution to it. I made another new batch filtering through the mesh from a french press. Of course I spilled half of it, but with practice I should get better. So, less unknown matter will be getting DMSOed into my knees. Thanks.

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#78

Is there any concern out there about daily use. Systemically we use once a week to avoid mTORc2 suppression. Is that not an issue with topical?

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#79

No issues, at least with transcutol there is no systemic absorption of the topical rapamycin.

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#80

I only have branded Rapamune tablets now. Is the best way to powder them an old fashioned mortar and pestle?