#9

Oh, the side effects of Covid are very real, including increased cardiac risks. It’s the spike protein nonsense that I’m referring to.

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#10

Info about natto and the spike protein comes from Peter McCullough, MD (cardiologist), former employee of Baylor in Texas. Google his name and “covid vaccine”.

There is in vitro basis for the assertion, as shown by the Japanese sources. There is no in vivo study yet, however.

It could be a true find, or a dud. I am guided by the article of an oncology researcher, Derek Lowe.

It’s weird and startling, though, if you haven’t had the opportunity to go back through clinical research (and even patient treatment) and seen how many things looked like they worked and really didn’t. It happens again and again. Alzheimer’s drugs, obesity drugs, cardiovascular drugs, osteoporosis drugs: over and over there have been what looked like positive results that evaporated on closer inspection. After you’ve experienced this a few times, you take the lesson to heart that the only way to be sure about these things is to run sufficiently powered controlled trials. No short cuts, no gut feelings - just data.

#11

Natto is harmless, however, and provides other benefits. But I will take it for the other benefits, not the spike protein dissolution. There is dried powder from Korea, so that may obviate the strong smell.

#12

But it still wouldn’t get absorbed into the bloodstream only amino acids are

#13

Why would the lipid nanoparticles float around forever and not eventually find a cell to merge with? If they couldn’t be broken down in the first place.

Also dissolution of mRNA vs. the spike protein is two different things yet he seems to mix them together.

#14

It’s the modified mrna that is resistant to breakdown and of course the lnp only become a problem when they merge and spike gets produced

#15

Yes the mRNA is modified to avoid detection by the immune system, etc. The spike is meant to be detected (obviously).

#16

The spike may be present in long Covid sufferers.

Paper is a pre-print, not yet peer reviewed.

In a preprint paper uploaded to medRxiv in June, researchers reported detecting a fragment of SARS-CoV-2 in blood samples from long COVID sufferers up to a year after their original infection. The fragment is a spike protein, one of the protrusions around the outside of SARS-CoV-2 that give this coronavirus its namesake corona, or crownlike appearance. During an initial COVID infection, the spike protein typically breaks off into smaller pieces when it penetrates human cells, but the spike proteins observed in this study were still in one piece. The findings have not yet been peer-reviewed.

#17

That’s what I used to think, too. There’s plenty of evidence nowadays that nattokinase and other proteolytic enzymes do in fact get absorbed intact, especially when enterically coated and taken on an empty stomach. Effective management of atherosclerosis progress and hyperlipidemia with nattokinase: A clinical study with 1,062 participants - PubMed

#18

That’s because there is a ‘dormant’ source producing the protein, namely SARS-CoV-2 itself as it says in the article. You won’t produce spike proteins for long after getting the vaccine, nor does it say it is the spike proteins themselves causing the problem. It’s like smoke with a fire.

Also the vaccine has a modified spike protein in a ‘pre-fusion’ configuration to avoid the spike collapsing on itself. Which apparently means it cannot bind or enter cells.

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#19

FWIW

In my view taking serrapeptase would work much better, and or both serrapeptase and natto.

You would need them to be in an " acid proof" capsules to survive the stomach acid.

There is a company that manufactures/sells a product{serrapeptase and natto] in an acid proof capsules, I have post this early part of last year{2022] on this forum

#20

I agree it is the SARS-CoV-2 that produces the spike, not the vaccine. Even the Japanese articles cited by McCullough talk about the spike protein from the virus, not spike from the vaccine. McCullough conveniently elides the very title his first cited Japanese article, to push his anti-vaccine view.

Degradative Effect of Nattokinase on Spike Protein of SARS-CoV-2

Title says spike protein of SARS, not of the vaccine.

But for long Covid sufferers, dissolution of the spike may be beneficial.

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#21

Hi Arhu,

There’s a study in Nature that reports a significant lowering of blood pressure from oral nattokinase supplementation. Effects of Nattokinase on Blood Pressure: A Randomized, Controlled Trial | Hypertension Research. Wouldn’t this suggest that the nattokinase is not broken down in the stomach, or at least that there is some mechanism for absorption?

Thanks
Joel

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#22

FWIW, I saw this today:

vaccination against COVID-19 is associated with fewer heart attacks, strokes, and other cardiovascular issues among people who were infected with SARS-CoV-2, the virus that causes COVID-19.

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#23

Recent pilot studies on the pharmacokinetics of NK have not provided an answer to the question of how NK is absorbed into the body.16,60 In fact, the pharmacokinetic data are rather inconsistent and mismatched with pharmacodynamic activities. Ero et al60 claimed that NK was measured directly in their study with a peak concentration at 13.3 hours after oral administration, whereas the thrombolytic activity of NK, measured in another study, was shown to peak 2 to 4 hours after oral dosing.16 These data imply that measurements of NK in the published studies may not be those of the intact NK molecule. Although it has been assumed that NK is stable in the GI tract19,28, it is important to address the key question of the mechanism of NK absorption into the body, with more convincing direct evidence. In fact, several groups have pointed out that the molecular size of NK is considered to be generally too large for oral absorption through the GI tract.19 It is recognised that NK may be susceptible to chemical oxidation and subsequent inactivation, or denaturation, in the GI tract.64 Thus, further studies are required to fully understand the pharmacokinetics of NK.

This is from the study Joseph put elsewhere:

Bizarre that we don’t know this yet. No money to study the cheap stuff that works.

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#24

Natto - Delicious for those people who have a taste for it - which is a distinct minority of people who aren’t Japanese. Most of the rest of us think it’s a pretty stinky mess (albeit a very nutritious one).

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#25

A twitter thread worth reading for anybody interested in Nattokinase, particularly with respect to use in (Long) COVID: https://twitter.com/organichemusic/status/1572885502457704453

TL;DR? (1) Nattokinase probably needs to be enteric coated to survive the trip through the stomach (consider Doctor’s Best brand “Natto-Serra”, which is enteric coated - unlike Doctor’s Best brand Nattokinase), and (2) you need a substantially higher dose (like around 10,000 FU daily) for decent results.

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Effective management of atherosclerosis and hyperlipidemia with nattokinase
#26

Enteric coating is really hard to do, and those type of capsules don’t work well. The owner of nootropicsdepot has talked about this for other supplements. It probably has to be in tablet form with a relatively expensive polymer coating of some sort.

#27

This article says Lumbrokinase is much more powerful:

Or you could just eat the worms.

#28

You need the Hepatitis/HIV drug to get rid of long Covid. If you can find a vendor that’s not a scammer, it’s called
Hepcinat In India. It America it costs about the same as a new truck. That drug cuts the chain, so it can’t continue to replicate in your body. It’s pretty safe as well.

Salvia miltiorrhiza Is great too. Not a cure, but a great natural root good for blood circulation and the heart. Some pretty impressive articles online.