medaura
#21
@RapAdmin I own the Ez Injector and only used it once. You can take it off my hands for the cost of shipping — got a bunch of replaceable parts. It’s NOT as you think though. I posted about my Ez Injector misadventure in the other thread. The problem is that with it you can only inject at 90 degree angle, and it’s not just about the depth but the angle is probably even more important. For skin boosters or hyperdilute Radiesse you need to inject at 15 degrees or so, very shallow. You would get lumps and granulomas if you inject perpendicularly. I stopped worrying about the depth with DEP and got spectacular results. It stands to reason as radiesse can generate new tissue at every depth so it’s not as if it’s creating problems by going too deep. The question is whether it is getting spread evenly or not and DEP assures that it does.
For reference, my experience with the Ez Injector / Ez Gun: The mTOR rebound effect has been kind to my skin? - #122 by medaura
p.p.s. I think it would work great with something like PRP but none of the synthetic products I can think of wanting to inject would be absorbed without complications in that way — through the mini bumps.
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medaura
#22
Did you ask what the model’s assumptions of the inputs in the COGS approximation are? Obviously a piece of electronic equipment is not built in a vacuum — the cost of labor varies from country to country, region to region. You also assume, or the model seems to assume, prototyping and building a machine from scratch, whereas the most likely explanation is that there’s a big factory in China contracted out to Mattioli to build those machines for them for a tiny fraction of what they’d cost to produce in Italy. They have the whole technology stack already ingested from Mattioli, so no need to reinvent the wheel and prototype. And they’re just cheating by selling it on the side to whomever asks for it. For all we know the marginal cost of labor for one more unit produced is almost literally zero:
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2025/10/12/why-western-executives-visit-china-coming-back-terrified/
I can tell you from personal use that the product does have a skin impedance sensor that works, because the gauge changes every time I add more product to the skin, so it “knows,” by somehow measuring the impedance on the spot. The proof of the pudding is in the eating of it. You can spend $200 and find out if it’s actually driving any product into your skin. My first try was with Hyaron, a lightly cross linked hyaluronic acid skin booster, that can act as a light short term filler if injected deep. I rubbed it around and drove it in with the DEP and at first I couldn’t tell what was going on, whether it was going in or simply evaporating, but as soon as I smiled I could tell I looked different— and not for the better— with chipmunk-like cheeks around the smile folds. It was a bit terrifying and took days to subside, after using a barrage of heat based treatments to help metabolize it. It was my “holy shit” moment.
medaura
#23
Ok from further reading it seems that I was wrong and Mattioli does not and claims to never have outsourced production to China. That doesn’t prevent the Chinese from reverse engineering their technology especially as it’s spelled out in its patents. The prototyping costs of reinventing the wheel may be steep, but they’re one time upfront outlays. The marginal cost of pumping out more of these machines are likely quite negligible in a country so vastly industrialized and geared towards mass production, now further moving into massive automation.
I’m no fan of the Chinese at all, to be clear. Rather terrified of them when I see first hand what a deep moat of technological advancement they have. It’s the nature of knowledge that it becomes a positive externality in the world. Yes we have a copyright & patent system in the West to incentivize innovation by granting inventors a temporary monopoly over the gains of their ideas. But along comes a third party that doesn’t play by those rules and cannibalizes others’ ideas. What can you do about it? Look who invented the atomic bomb, what kind of caliber of minds were brought together for the Manhattan project. And once it’s done, you get Stalin copying it, and these days the insane mullahs would if they could, and the lunatic in North Korea already has.
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All of what you are saying can be accurate, but I’m still very skeptical that we would likely get the same level of performance from a $200 device, as compared to a $15,000+ device (even given the crazy margins that you can get on patented medical devices).
I’m not saying that the Chinese device does not provide good value for the money, and may still do an entirely satisfactory “job” at what it is doing… I just doubt that it can drive the solutions down into the skin to the same depth and efficiency that the much more expensive product does.
For $200, if it provides any benefit for even a short period of time, it may still be a good deal.
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medaura
#25
You might be right. I do have the counterfeit Radiesse — nanohydroxyapatite — and it works great. But now I’m curious if the original product might work even better. Since the difference in price is maybe $100-200, I am willing to try, just to see what I’m leaving on the table by going counterfeit. Whereas with the device itself, whatever extra effectiveness or efficiency there may be to the original device’s functionality, there’s such rapidly diminishing marginal returns that I don’t care to know at all what I’m missing. I can tell about 70% of the volume of whatever solution I use gets absorbed into my skin. Perhaps the original DEP device would make it so 100% of the product does but that’s hardly worth $19,000 to me when I can just wait to use more product later on. If I needed it to drive chemotherapy solutions etc. past the skin and accuracy were paramount, then I wouldn’t mess around with a product disavowed by the branded manufacturer. Since I just want to make my skin look better and I can already tell by looking in the mirror that it’s working great, I’m only too happy to be getting these results for pennies on the dollar.
Honestly I’m happier to spend more for the original Pfizer sirolimus from Turkey, which I have, rather than get the Zydus from India. But imagine if I were to buy the original Pfizer sirolimus in the U.S. out of pocket, and compare that to the Zydus in India. Even with the concerns re: good manufacturing practices in most FDA approved Indian pharma outfits, the Indian Zydus is much more worthwhile to the biohacker than the U.S. Pfizer Sirolimus. If I needed it as a kidney transplant recipient, I’d sing a different tune though.
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I was checking into this product a bit. Also reading people’s experiences on Reddit (DIY Cosmetic) and they sometimes use the device with a single needle (Luer lock connector) for control of the quantity delivered. this would be without the “suction” feature obviously. Perhaps you could also use a 3 pin needle arrangement (again, without the suction).
And of course you’d need to use a larger needle for delivery of the Radiesse formulations due to the microspheres.
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I ordered the DEP device from China on October 8th from this company that @medaura had suggested. It arrived today.
Given the low cost, I thought it would be interesting to check out. at some point I may take it apart just to see what’s inside, and decide whether it actually is a true electroporation device, or if its something else (I’m always a little skeptical about these things…). I like the concept of a skin electroporation device… easy to use, no needles, etc.
No extra duty, so not sure what was going on - perhaps just included in the “shipping fee”. It just got dropped on my doorstep while I was out.
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medaura
#28
I just wouldn’t dare use anything other than DEP for Radiesse as I lack the injection technique. Watched webinars where they go into great detail on the angle, linear retrograde technique, and the need to not inject at all close to the needle entry point as it might result in granuloma. Besides I’d need to massage it 5x a day and I don’t have the time. With the DEP it’s one and done, with a bit of product wastage.
What do you see inside the machine after taking it apart?
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