This is a good resource on science behind cocoa and flavonols with collection of scientific papers on different health aspects and flavonols…

http://cocoaflavanolscience.com

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I believe if I am not mistaken (has been a while since I have researched high flavonols chocolate and cocoa) that flavanaturals cocoa and chocolate is Acticoa (owned by Barry Callebaut) the other player is the one that Byan Johnson uses CocoaVia and it is a trademark of Mars company… they are only two brands that I could find that measure their flavonols and market them. Cocoa for high flavonols is sourced specially and dried and roasted in a way that keeps high flavonol content otherwise chocolate and cocoa are really poor sources of flavonols. You would need to eat almost 100g of regular cocoa or 200g of regular chocolate per day to get 400-500mg flavonols used in studies…

From Byan Johnson posts about chocolate I assume that he is trying to get into the business of high flavonol chocolate. It seems there is not a lot competition and huge market possibilities.

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Thanks - good info. Perhaps people want to purchase from them.

Has anyone done any research into how the temperature of the coffee (if you put the cocoa powder into your coffee) impact flavonol levels?

https://flavanaturals.com/product/flavamix/

https://flavanaturals.com

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I agree that cacao polyphenols are a plus, but I try not to believe in superfoods. Chocolate polyphenols are just some of the many, many phytonutrients that offer some benefit. This I learned from Dr Jed Fahey of sulforaphane fame.

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This brings up an interesting point… in an ideal world we’d have a list of the top X number of phytonutrients, and sources, then rank them by sources and the cost/100mg of phytonutrients so we can get the best bang for the buck.

I don’t suppose you’ve heard of anything that might help construct something like this?

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CocoVia is a tempting product, but maybe not for 50 bucks a month.

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This would be a great tool. I’ll bet something exists for the top 50 but I don’t have it. Wikipedia has a long list under Phytochemicals.

The big problem is shear size. 20 years ago the consensus was 50,000 phytochemicals. Now they think 2 million, and the experts suspect it is really much bigger than that. I don’t think any one thing is critical. Some things are known to be good, so emphasize those over unknowns.

The key is to get a wide variety, and let it shift over time. Foods, spices, supplements, etc. Too much of the same thing for too long increases risk of developing food sensitivities (immune system reactions).

And, anything called a “superfood” is going to cost extra to pay for the marketing and product formulation etc. Superfood not a scientific term. It is a marketing term.

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I buy Flavanaturals, their serving size is 900 mg of flavonols and I halve it for 450 mg and it lasts me 2 months… me being frugal. I have this self imposed limit on supplements and (self) prescribed medicines. :sweat_smile::face_with_hand_over_mouth:

Same here, the only problem is that if you are a little obsessive you want to quantify “active” or beneficial ingredients in food it is good that it measured. And as you point out when measured and given status of “superfood” or supplement it becomes unreasonably expensive. It becomes business. I consult a supplement company and even really inexpensive ingredients that are backed up by scientific studies and are later standardized and measured become ridiculously expensive.
But I remember example from one of the videos you shared, about NO and nitrate in celery… in LA it would be sufficient to eat one or two ribs in NYC you would need to eat 2 or 3 bunches. SO they made a standardized nitrate and vitamin C supplement from two least expensive ingredients and they are selling it for 40 or 50 USD per month. So it is what it is…

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The list was culled from phenol-explorer.eu, as revealed by the citations.

Top are some spices - cloves, peppermint, star anise, Mexican oregano. Cocoa powder is number 4, dark chocolate, number 8.

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“If there are any milk solids mixed into cacao, it goes from hero to zero really fast, regardless of the cacao vs. cocoa powder argument. Dairy essentially nullifies cacao’s benefits, blocking nutrients from absorption. And even the highest grade of dark chocolate usually has some dairy in it.”

Nonsense. Notice that if the Lindt nor the Sams dark chocolate contains dairy it’s only by some microscopic contamination as with almonds and coconuts.
The only thing we really have to avoid is heavy metals and sugar.

Even though many dark chocolate bars do not contain milk I see no studies that show that a milk additive is detrimental. Even if you are lactose intolerant, the amount of lactose you would receive in a couple of ounces of a milk chocolate bar wouldn’t hurt you.

“They found that 41 g of milk chocolate contains almost as much phenol as 140 mL of red wine. 2 It is known that cocoa is rich in polyphenols such as (−)epicatechin 3 and that a coloured component of cocoa (cocoa-red) is polyphenol, which is found also in red wine”

“In an animal model of atherosclerosis, cocoa powder at a human dose equivalent of two dark chocolate bars per day significantly inhibited atherosclerosis, lowered cholesterol, low-density lipoprotein, and triglycerides, raised high-density lipoprotein, and protected the lower density lipoproteins from oxidation. Chocolate has thus been shown to have potential beneficial effects with respect to heart disease.”

Most studies do not use the term “Cacao”, they use the term cocoa or chocolate.
Cocoa is the none fatty part of cacao.
If you can show studies that show a significant difference in the benefits of cacao vs cocoa I would be interested.

“The 27-g chocolate portion was
in the form of candy-coated M&M’s baking bits, which provided
0.732 MJ, 0.021 g caffeine and 0.18 g theobromine. Each 27-g
chocolate portion contained 46 mg epicatechin and a total of 186 mg
of procyanidins. The bread (bagel) provided 0.544 MJ, 0.75 g total
fat, 25 g carbohydrate and 4.5 g protein in a 47-g serving”

Even M&Ms provide some benefits.

“Time to exhaustion (TTE), average heart rate (HR), rating of perceived exertion (RPE), and total work (WT) for the endurance exercise were compared between trials. TTE and WT were significantly greater for chocolate milk and FR trials compared to CR trial. The results of this study suggest that chocolate milk is an effective recovery aid between two exhausting exercise bouts.”

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(05)65927-2/fulltext

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Yup. The good news is you can use the nitrite test strips to see if you are getting enough nitrate. Fortunately the celery in my area (Asheville NC) provides enough nitrate if I eat it 2x per day. Of course that is boring so I need to find more foods or get a supplement.

I use Navitas Organic Cacao Powder in my morning smoothies. It’s from unroasted cacao beans with no sugar.

Navitas Organics Organic Cacao Powder, Non-GMO, Fair Trade, Gluten-Free, 16 Ounce

https://a.co/d/jeXb3sN

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Would this product in capsule form be the same as the powder you are taking?

“We tested 28 dark chocolate bars for lead and cadmium. To determine the risk posed by the chocolates in CR’s test, we used California’s maximum allowable dose level (MADL) for lead (0.5 micrograms) and cadmium (4.1mcg). Shown are the percentages of the MADL supplied in an ounce of each chocolate. Our results indicate which products had comparatively higher levels and are not assessments of whether a product exceeds a legal standard.”

Well, crap! I just finished off a bar of this!

CRAP

Okay

https://www.consumerreports.org/health/food-safety/lead-and-cadmium-in-dark-chocolate-a8480295550/

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Yes, I have a limited budget for this stuff, and I’d prefer capsules to tablespoons. I may forgo the cacao and instead take 400-mg caps of theobromine, the principal alkaloid of the cacao plant. The alkaloid inhibits “uric acid crystallization” and may be useful in the treatment of gout and kidney stones. Got 90 caps for $14. Theobromine, by the way, is why chocolate is poisonous to dogs and cats. Keep the cacao up and away from the most vulnerable members of your family.

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Yup. Cocoa is the only good source of theobromine. The most prevalent phenolics (the catechins and some procyanidins) are widely distributed in plants, and worth neither cutting down rainforest to grow nor paying exorbitantly to buy cocoa extracts.

Note that the COSMOS extract was enriched in phenolics, but still contained some theobromine, which could have been responsible for some of the effects.

More good news for chocolate / cocoa fans: (of course this is coming from the Swiss… a large chocolate-producing country).

CONCLUSION: While chocolate consumption was not associated with MRI findings and major adverse cardiac events in an atrial fibrillation population, No/Low-Chocolate was associated with a lower cognitive construct score, higher risk of heart failure hospitalisation and increased all-cause mortality compared to Moderate-Chocolate [intake].

smw-2023-40109.pdf (965.3 KB)

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theobromine — this is a strong stimulant. Take in the AM. I used to make a whey, cacao, veggie powder, creatine “shake” with just enough water to make a paste. Then I would eat it with a spoon as a breakfast or a dessert. Then I started adding ice cream and dark chocolate chips. Now that was good.

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