I think detected mutations may in reality be aberrant splices at times.
This is probably also relevant.
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medaura
#10
When I search in the literature I see references to cancer cells using other amino acids besides glutamine as a source of energy. What’s his take on that?
Could you ask? Or give me his contact info so I can take it up?
I mean a prolonged water fast would starve the cancer of all these sources but I don’t know how long it would need to be and if it would be feasible.
I have put up two different videos with a number of people in them. Which person?
Bicep
#12
If protein is out and carbs are out then that just leaves fat. How about a fat fast?
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medaura
#13
I’m sorry I meant the original, Seyfried. He makes it sound as though without glucose and glutamine cancer cells have no energy source. Other research I linked to shows that cancer can thrive off of other amino acids as well. You might remember the source as it was posted on the thread re: glycine, and specifically mentions how serine can feed cancer.
medaura
#14
I’m not sure, actually. The liver can turn protein into sugar. Not sure if it can do the same to fat. But my point here is just to make sure what Seyfried is saying pans out in the face of other research claiming other amino acids can be metabolized by cancer.
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Short answer courtesy of Dr. Oracle:
What is Gluconeogenesis
Gluconeogenesis is the metabolic pathway through which glucose is synthesized from non-carbohydrate sources.
Mainly occurs in the liver, but also in the kidneys and small intestine.
Where Gluconeogenesis Occurs:
Primarily in the liver
Also occurs in the kidneys and small intestine, but to a lesser degree
Substrates Used for Gluconeogenesis
Lactate
Glycerol
Amino acids (alanine, glutamine, serine, threonine, methionine, valine, arginine, histidine, proline, aspartate, asparagine, glutamate, and tryptophan)
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I’m a big fan of Inigo. He’s been discussing/researching cancer as it relates to metabolism for quite some time. If interested, check out his research.
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medaura
#17
Are you going to take their metabolic test?
Not cheap but not ridiculous either and you’ve invested a lot of time and effort and supplements into your routine so I’d be curious how your mitochondria score.
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I will have a look at this. I do a lot of testing. (I did another blood test today).
Just glancing at it they don’t ship to the UK.
cl-user
#19
I totally agree with all the above. Concerning Attia, his guests are, most of the time, very knowledgeable and interesting but he himself often looks like he only has a shallow understanding of the subjects.
In fact it depends which cancer. Some are sensitive to glucose depletion but others can use other energy sources like fatty acids, proteins, etc.
Worse in some cases the glucose depletion can make the cancer more aggressive like in this 2023 paper for instance:
Rewiring of energy metabolism is a hallmark of cancer, and the increased dependency on glucose is a common characteristic of cancer cells […]
However, the clinical results with metabolic therapies targeting glucose have been disappointing, likely due to cancer cell plasticity and adaptation mechanisms (Cargill et al, 2021). The complex adaptations induced in cancer cells by glucose restriction are not known. Here, we report the discovery that glucose restriction induces de-differentiation and promotes aggression of lung adenocarcinoma (LUAD) cells.[…] leading to a highly aggressive and metastatic phenotype.
In fact they were looking at using SGLT2 inhibitors for that but found out that it might end up worse:
We previously showed that pharmacological inhibition of SGLT2 in murine LUAD results in reduction of the tumor burden and improvement of survival (Scafoglio et al., 2018). However, mice eventually develop aggressive tumors and die even during the treatment.
Glucose deprivation promotes pseudo-hypoxia and de-differentiation in lung adenocarcinoma
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medaura
#20
Yes, so it runs directly against the claims made by Seyfried in the original video in this thread. He says doesn’t matter the type of cancer or its mutations, the cells run either on glucose or the fermentation of glutamine — nothing else. So it seems like a blanket categorical statement in light of other sources. And trust me, I’d love for it to be that simple.
But surely he’s a serious researcher and must be aware of all these papers. So maybe I’m missing something.
cl-user
#21
It’s a fairly recent paper (Nov 7, 2023) and the authors were surprised by their finding too:
Surprisingly, we found that glucose restriction- induced de-differentiation and increased aggressiveness requires activation of the hypoxia-inducible factor 1α (HIF1α) signaling.
The published paper is there: Glucose deprivation promotes pseudo-hypoxia and de-differentiation in lung adenocarcinoma
Here is another interesting paper (also dated Nov 2023) on that exact “cancer use of glucose” topic: The crosstalk among the physical tumor microenvironment and the effects of glucose deprivation on tumors in the past decade
The occurrence and progression of tumors are inseparable from glucose metabolism. With the development of tumors, the volume increases gradually and the nutritional supply of tumors cannot be fully guaranteed. The tumor microenvironment changes and glucose deficiency becomes the common stress environment of tumors. […]
In the face of a series of stress responses brought by glucose deficiency, different types of tumors have different coping mechanisms. […] It turns out that most of these genes help tumor cells survive in glucose-deprivation conditions.
I’m eating low carbs and I’ve been in ketosis (measured!) for several years now so I’m all in with the cancer as a metabolic disease theory. That said, in biology everything always turns out to be more complex than initially thought because there are many redundant pathways especially for energy generation.
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I think the vast majority of cancers are likely metabolic in nature. But, I swear everything in life has exceptions. Like you said, biology is more complex than we always think.
My rule with carbs, is do your best to eat healthy versions, and eat them based on your energy expenditure. If you move more, especially aerobically, your muscles work more efficiently off of healthy carbs. They most certainly perform better.
I personally think that’s part of the puzzle. We teach our bodies how to work via our lifestyles. Your metabolism can learn how to use healthy sources of food when regularly in motion.
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Just curious what about benign tumors? I have an acoustic neuroma for example (responding well to Cyberknife 5 years on). I am taking a few supplements but wondering how to keep improving my situation. I take D3 k2 astaxanthin, bromelain, SPM resolvins, fucoidan, sometimes taurine, melatonin. I only weigh 53 kgs and all my blood results are good (also am post Covid).
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If a metabolic cancer then citrate may work, but we dont know and you need medical advice before trying it (or anything else)
Here are some slides from Dr Seyfried’s video on cancer as a metabolic disease.
His talk is focused on treating cancer but it seems sensible to avoid cancer using the same ideas for making mitochondria healthy
For me:
Higher carb intake only when matched with physical activity. Otherwise low-ish carb via vegetables for satiation, nutrients and fiber/phytonutrients (for gut, mainly).
Limit consumption of nonessential amino acids. (And don’t eat more EAA than needed for recovery and muscle building). No whey or other protein supplements. Consider EAA supplementation if short on intake. Get protein from real food but only what is needed. Emphasize post resistance training periods.
Water only fasting 1 24-hour period each week.
Exercise regularly with no planned full rest days. Balance calorie intake, protein, carbs with exercise volume and intensity.
Other: provide regular just tolerable stress in a progressive overload fashion. Heat/cold, a bit of HIIT every week, metabolic flexibility, range of motion, etc
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Taurine would like to have a word with him.
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约瑟夫
#27
Just linking{below]another thread / posting with listing some of his published papers / book.
A link to his personal web site
He has a small personal YouTube channel was started in September 25, 2024;
Also there are a group of supporter who have a channel exclusively with his work.
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