Do you mean using the class of drug? Or do you mean Empa specifically and think Empa is better for longevity than Cana?

That effect should be pro longevity

But other things are happening in the body too, so you cannot with logic alone determine if the net effect is pro longevity and we need more actual data

(For instance, two very simple logic examples sleep and hydration are both important for health and longevity and could be interrupted enough by more frequent peeing to have a negative longevity effect over a long term use).

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Actually, I am much thirstier after taking empagliflozin. I drink at least another 4-6 cups of water daily now due to the thirst. Personally I think that’s a good thing.

The sleep issue is more serious IMHO. I do wake up an extra time each night to urinate. I probably need to drink less before bedtime!

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All your reasonings appear to be correct, but for the fact that practitioners of CR are aware of this and supplement potentially (or actually) lowered micronutrients, in what is called CR-ON, Calorie Restriction with Optimal Nutrition. Probably they don’t supplement lithium, but almost everything is accounted for religiously tracking their intake with cronometer.

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Canagliflozin alone amongst all known SGLT2 inhibitors has a significant anti-cancer effect (in human clinical studies of cancer patients). Mice lifespan is primarily limited by cancer.

In humans cancer is not nearly as dominant as in mice, so I will stick with Empa for its superior kidney protection. But, if I am ever diagnosed with cancer I am switching to Cana.

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It does lower ferritin but I think it’s because it improves the iron metabolism. It INCREASES magnesium by improving magnesium homeostasis. Papers report SGLT2i being used to cure magnesium deficiency. (check papers posted in this thread). So… It’s more complex than just “it excretes things”.

Also: it’s not a diuretic. People don’t urinate more in trials, check these two papers: Rilmenidine vs Telmisartan or other BP meds for Longevity - #95 by adssx

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Yes, which is why I say you can quibble. But while CRONies indeed do that, the literature on classic CR studies is not uniform. A ton, especially of earlier studies, simply cut food rations with no macro or micronutrient adjustment, and the animal appeared to experience dose dependent life extension. And while CRONies did indeed stress the “ON” part, there has never been agreement as to what constitutes the “O”. Furthermore I am not aware of any studies showing the validity, necessity, or superiority of such adjustments. It appears that straight CR works. Whether adding ON gives better results needs proof.

Classic calorie reduction posited undernutrition without malnutrition, meaning you weren’t f.ex. feed the animals only sugar and in small quantities, because that would be malnutrition. Instead, what CR studies routinely did, was put the mice on standard chow, but smaller portions.

Until we have more sensitive studies we won’t know definitively if adding micronutrients to CR is beneficial. We do know that there is danger in such adding, because for example adding molecules (such as methionine) which trigger nutrient sensing pathways often can abolish the CR life extension benefits, despite the cut in calories. So it could be dangerous to add you don’t know what… f.ex. zinc might give the body a strong signal “plenty of calories”, because zinc rarely is consumed by animals without calories, so evolution primed the body to respond as if a huge dose of zinc means there is a surplus of food, and the body signals accordingly and your CR is wasted.

Bottom line, it is a cleaner intervention, when the body gets a pure signal “not much food, and not much anything that comes with food, methionine, cysteine, zinc, lithium(?), X”. But if it also gets a false signal because of supplements, the message becomes blurred, and your benefits might suffer or disappear. Little food means little food, period, and not "wait, little food but blood full of vitamins, minerals, aminoacids etc… feels like a lot of food!

As you can see, unless we have specific studies, you can never be sure how one intervention interracts with another - it might be additive, or subtractive, or neutral. Be careful assuming. Which is one of Matt Kaeberlein’s mantras: as you stack more and more molecules on top of each other, the odds of unanticipated interactions rises geometrically - fewer is simpler, safer, more knowable and better. YMMV.

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Cronies definitely supplement zinc, in moderate amounts.
I’m speaking about the Cronies I know, the members of the now inactive CR forum, many of’em took part in the Calaries study by Luigi Fontana.

I agree that the issue is more complex than it seems, for example the RDAs of micronutrients, do they refer to mere maintenance or more, they also are probabilistic and usually represent a 97.5th percentile so a lower dose would be enough for 50% of the population, and so on and so forth…

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I know that empagliflozin is not a diuretic, but for me, I am a lot thirstier so my water intake has increased by 1-3 cups daily. This is not a bad thing IMHO as water is readily available.

Great to know about the increase in magnesium on empagliflozin.

As for stacking molecules, when I look at my mother’s stack of 14-16 medications that she needs to take after her heart attack, I think that the 8 prescription meds I take to prevent health problems are worth it. I am on the lookout for negative interactions, but so far everything seems to be working well together.

Also, aren’t our diets quite varied with a huge number of different molecules? I’m not worried about my diet unless I’m eating very unhealthily!

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I had to take electrolytes due to muscle cramps. Might have come from excessive urination

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14-16!? What is your mother even taking?

Do we have any data or can we speculate on whether the positive effects described in this thread would still apply to people who have normal glucose metabolism?

I know that some studies have shown benefits in non-diabetic people, but non-diabetic people can still have spikes up to 180mg/dl and HbA1C up to 6.5. What about people with healthy metabolism and diet whose glucose never spikes above 120mg/dl? Would they still see the benefit (e.g., CVD, CKD, and dementia prevention; life extension)?

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I know it’s a long thread, but it has a LOT of great info, most of it thanks to @adssx . IMO, signs point to “yes” and that’s why I’m taking empagliflozin daily.

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Is everyone taking their SGLT2 with breakfast or with dinner? I do breakfast but might switch to dinner just so it’s away from my workouts (no idea if it matters though). I just don’t want it to impact sleep.

I take it in the morning.

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It’s more than “point”: SGLT2i are approved in people without diabetes who have CKD or heart failure. So we know it protects the kidneys and heart irrespective of diabetes status. For people without diabetes, SGLT2i don’t lower HbA1c much (that’s what papers say, that’s my experience, even though you do pee a lot of sugar), so these benefits are not related to lower glucose levels. There’s something else happening.

Does it mean that someone without T2D, CKD or HF would benefit from SGLT2i? No one knows. But is there any other class of drugs that have 2 compounds proved to extend lifespan in healthy mice (canagliflozin ITP and empagliflozin that obscure Chinese paper)?

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My guess is that SGLT2I improve kidney efficiency and slow down kidney aging. Kidneys are very important and if you can keep them in better shape for longer, you will live longer.

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I also haven’t noticed any reduction in A1C with Empagliflozin either. I guess it is better at preventing it from going up when not diabetic.

I also haven’t gotten a A1C reduction with Acarbose either.

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https://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/new-atrial-fibrillation-guidelines-confront-underlying-2024a1000fvd

“Sodium-glucose cotransporter-2 (SGLT2) inhibitors “should be offered to all patients with AF,” according to Van Gelder, who identified this as a new class I recommendation.”

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SGLT2i even better than GLP1-RAs for neuroprotection? => Parkinson's disease - #250 by adssx

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