#61

Why can’t we get our amino acids from our diet?

#62

Well, it is my experience (anecdotal obviously) that taking aminos alone will have very different effects as opposed to getting them from diet. As an example, I get really bad charley-horse when walk over 6-7miles per day and if I take 2GR carnosine before the walk I’ll never have the Charlie horse/muscle spasm. However, if I consume my favorite 14-16OZ steak and do the same amount of walk I will definitely get the Spasms/Charlie horse. I’m not 100% sure how much carnosine is in the steak, but I am pretty sure it is more than 2gr, yet It does not have same effect as taking the L-carnosine. Same with L-lysine against cold sores. If I do 3X2gr of lysine for couple days cold sores just disappear. If I eat the steak which i know it has more than 6gr of L-Lysine it has no effect in cold sores. N=1 and take it for what’s worth, but i for once am convinced that taking aminos separate (not just through food) you’ll get better/different results than through food alone.

That is not to say that we don’t get enough aminos with food (I think we do get plenty especially the meat loving crowd) but the effect seems to differ from those off supplements.

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#63

I believe you can’t get all the amino acids from diet because amino acids ‘take turns’ to be absorbed.

Look at how glycine, beta-alanine and taurine are absorbed. These three are absorbed by the glycine receptor. Glycine has priority, followed by beta-alanine and finally Taurine. If too much time passes, your body will not be able to absorb the AAs and you will excrete them. So if you take a large doses of Glycine, you’ll absorb less beta-alanine and taurine. Caffeine also gums up the glycine receptor causing less of all three amino acids from being absorbed. This is just one example. I believe there are probably other amino acids that malabsorbed in the same fashion.

In addition, as you get older, your body gets remarkably slower at absorbing amino acids so you absorb even less. I don’t know what the exact percentage of absorption is for older adults, but it appears to be around 20% of what a young person absorbs for some amino acids like Taurine since their taurine levels are 20% of a young persons. There could be other factors as well, but the percentage has been measured for some amino acids.

The best way to absorb amino acids is mixed with water and consumed on an empty stomach. Even when I put them in my coffee, it’s suboptimal due to the caffeine. That’s why I like decaffeinated fruit tea for my citrulline and glycine at night.

Other amino acids like glutamine are over-absorbed and your body has a large stockpile of them. Unfortunately glutamine is a cancer food so I like to clear it out with glycine and cysteine to produce glutathione which is really good for you.

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#64

@DeStrider Thanks for the detailed answer. Is there any theory on how older people can recover their ability to absorb amino acids?

Rapamycin working in the immune system to reduce inflammation?

Fasting. Exercise to turn on autophagy?

Improve gut health (biome diversity) to support lower inflammation?

Anything?

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#65

This is a fascinating area. And i really don’t understand it. But a few observations:
Protein absorption doesn’t seem to be the big problem as we age. The impact seems quite modest:
“For young adults, 51% of ingested protein ends up in the blood following digestion and absorption. For older adults, this was only 45%.”

Using taurine as an example, could it be reduced synthesis causes the problem? (In the “liver and other organs” https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S254310642300011X)
The paper also suggests a role for b vitamins in synthesis of taurine.

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#66

Very interesting. So the problem is upstream somewhere. Something like…the body is busy making glutathione (rate limited by cysteine) to deal with increasing oxidative stress so it makes less taurine (made from cysteine)…if we maintain mitochondrial health so to have less oxidative damage, then we’ll make more taurine.

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#67

And taurine improves mitochondrial health, so maybe there’s a virtuous feedback from taurine!
One other thing. Peter Attia has.thrown doubt on the idea that taurine supplementation will increase taurine cellular levels in humans. The more i look, the more hogwash it seems. This human trial clearly shows supplementation get into cells: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0899900722001198

Im going to drink some taurine right now🍸

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#68

On the flip side, avoid these amino acids if you have cancer, as cancer uses these to grow.

The leading substrates consumed in cancer cells included glucose and AAs, such as tryptophan, tyrosine, phenylalanine, lysine, valine, methionine, serine, threonine, isoleucine, leucine and glutamine [6].

Glycine removes glutamine through glutathione production. Glycine has been shown to be good against some cancers (pancreas, liver, colon) and promote others. Therefore it is generally considered neutral towards cancer since it modulates risks.

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#69

Can I ask, how much and when do you take it? And the same question for how/when you pare it with NAC? (and taurine if there is some interaction)?

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#70

I take 11 g of collagen peptides and 4-5 g of Glycine in my morning coffee. I take 2.6 g of NAC at the same time.

I take 6-8 g of Taurine in my late morning coffee

I take 4-5 g of Glycine in my dinner decaf tea along with 2 g of Citrulline

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#71

Is this part of your GlyNac protocol or just separate on the topic of aminos?

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#72

It’s separate, but I need the glycine to sweeten up the Citrulline Malate. Otherwise, it’s too sour. Glycine is a great, healthy sweetener.

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#73

Very interesting, did not know glutamine is cancer food, and you seem to suggest that glycine plus cysteine will interact with glutamine to make glutathione? Can you elaborate a bit more on glutamine and it’s cancer inducing properties, and what is the best way neutralize/clear it out of our bodies (other than glycine and cysteine).
btw, since we are ion the subject of aminos (basically building blocks of protein) I always kept a belief (anecdotally) that if we find the perfect balance of aminos and take them, it would be real beneficial for longevity and health. The problem however is I don’t think that even in the best sources of protein like wild game, or wild fish will not have the perfect ratio for longevity, since the evolution (or nature or whatever you like to call it) works in a way that ok I’ll feed you and that will be good to sustain you but together with nutrients you’ll be getting some other ingredients (or maybe not the perfect ratio) so that you will die (younger rather than later ie at 80 as opposed to 150 ) and kill me and my offspring again for food. Almost like a balancing act among the species. So, to me the aminos play a big role in longevity and health. Perhaps for some aminos the intake should be reduced/eliminated, for other increased, and even which ones must be taken alone, and which ones should be taken together etc, I think it’s an area that needs to be researched and analyzed in greater detail.

#74

Glutamine in cancer cells plays critical and diverse roles by providing not only a source of nitrogen for amino acid and nucleotide biosynthesis but also a source of carbon to replenish the tricarboxylic acid (TCA) cycle and lipid biosynthesis pathways; thus, cancer cells are “addicted” to glutamine.

https://www.nature.com/articles/s12276-023-00971-9

And Glutamines role in Glutathione synthesis.

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#75

That’s an incorrect assumption. Foods rich in carnosine like meat contains a bit over 100 mg of carnosine per 100 g so you won’t get 2 g from the diet.

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#76

gotcha, I did search and find same as you but was lazy to edit. Nevertheless, my hypothesis still stands. If you/I eat two steaks per day (lunch and dinner) or other equivalent meat (eat quite a bit of meat/protein) then that is about 1gr of carnosine daily, yet i don’t get any relief whereas if i take 1gr of L-carnosine the effect is immediate.

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#77

You raise a really interesting question. A synthesized protein food probably shouldn’t mimic existing meat/fish.
I wonder whether an ideal synthesized protein would additionally have different time release for different amino acids. Taking taurine and glycine together inhibits absorption, so I take them at different times of day. A time release component would be interesting and useful

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#78

I always felt that the secret code to a very long life is hidden in protein/amino acids, or at least related somehow to aminos. Clearly, I’m not qualified in the field to be able to back my theory up, but it’s just mind boggling (for me) how taking aminos (supplements not food) you can derive almost instantaneous results. Rarely do any other substances/supplements have such noticeable effect (i have previously mentioned that lysine in high doses gets rid of cold sores, carnosine fixes the muscle spasm, arginine big dilation and sexual effects etc.) As you rightly point out, perhaps which ones should be taken together or in which daily quantities and frequencies might have the answer. Perhaps, some may not even be beneficial to be taken every day, while others may need be supplied few times within the day. I really think this area (aminos and longevity) needs way more attention from people/scientist in this field.
I also believe that the answer (to longevity) is probably way simpler than the complex pathways and mechanisms and all other areas/things these scientists are chasing. I feel it could be something that when it will become obvious everyone will say, how the hell didn’t we see it. I’m fascinated by the field, and not necessarily just to live longer, but rather for us humans to be able to break the mold, and to somehow be able to be much more in control of our health and even our longevity. I am certain that it is a matter of time before people will casually live to 110 and up.

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#79

@SNK There are some threads on the forum about protein and protein restriction on longevity - might want to do a search and read those

There is also a large scientific literature beyond those threads

For instance a pubmed search for just “amino acid” and “longevity” shows more than two thousand different scientific papers:

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#81

Restricting dietary isoleucine increased the lifespan and healthspan of the mice

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