Hi Eric,
I have taken Serrapeptase and also Nattokinase in the past year. My LPa was high when measured last year but haven’t had it tested again. I will let you know when I do.
I wasn’t even taking these two for cholesterol, so your post is interesting. I am taking annatto vitamin E in the hope that might help. I took a bottle of Serrapeptase to try and get rid of the mucous which forms in my throat when I get social anxiety. I didn’t do much so I didn’t get a second bottle. Reading what you shared I might start taking it again. I have a genetic marker for thrombosis.
I too prefer a low carb diet with (slow cooked) meat and vegetable - also tons of salad - and like you have zero calcium in my arteries. I do have a small amount of plaque and a bicuspid heart valve. Like you I am also disinclined to take statins. I read somewhere in the carnivore research by Dr. Paul Mason from Australia, that LDL going up when your triglycerides are normal is okay and even a good sign that happens when you get on the right track. I would have to search through his Youtube movies to find it again but he was pretty convincing and helped me stop worrying.
One of the reasons I started taking Nattokinase was the Japan study which found that it dissolves the spike protein in Covid. I was also taking it because I incorrectly thought that it had vitamin K2 in it. I was very annoyed when I found out they removed it. Crazy! I now have to take both. I would love to know how to make it popopop I have made tempeh and lots of other cultured food in the past. I am not too excited about buying natto in the little styrofoam containers you get it in the Asian shops here. Spiral foods has natto that is an amazing condiment - but last I checked I could only get it from the wholesalers in 10 kg lots. I might look into that again and find some friends who will take some.
I didn’t know bergamot was used for cholesterol. I used to take it for it’s anti ageing benefits. I will have to look into that again.
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That’s a great question, @KarlT — really the prime question here. Id love an answer.
As far as my reading has shown, there don’t seem to be side effects in the same way that statins have, but none have been forced to report them. There was a safety study done at high does for I think one month, but not sure. The Chinese study was a “higher” doses daily (12,000 FU vs 2,000 normally recommended) and showed no side effects, but consider the source….
There are well studied side effects with statins albeit not common.
I might have a bad attitude about these things, but I always assume that anthropogenic created small molecule pharmacology perhaps more often have more potential side effects as they aren’t as often “naturally occurring” molecules. This means that peptides and other functional proteins may be more easily handled by our physiology.
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Thank you, @karismac — that’s helpful.
Regarding citrus bergamot, I was actually prescribed it by my doctor to lower my LDL (not my research). I needed substantial time to convince her that the low-carb diet was worth trying, and she now admits it was successful with me. She is “less than enthused” with the carnivore diet and decided even though my labs were terrific (aside from my LDlL at 172 in January) I need to bring my LDL down. Hence the citrus bergamot.
Like you I’ve listened to all the “keto/carnivore” doctors on how LDL doesn’t matter, and it might not…on a ten year time frame. But if I’m looking at 50 years, LDL is a real risk factor. Im convinced that — simplistically — oxidized LDLs contribute to plaques, so having lower LDL is probably a benefit (as is preventing oxidation, and inflammation). My LDL is the same with low carb, as with my SAD diet, so I don’t think it’s the cause, nor is it rising as all to become my energy source. So I’m going to try to lower it in as unobtrusively and healthy a way as possible.
I’m also considering the possibility that I will NOT be able to meaningfully lower LDL. So perhaps I can “pulse” a strong anti LDL/anti-plaque intervention every (say) five years: PCSK9 to lower LDL to 30 for a period, maybe massive Nattokinase or segupepsidase or whatever but short term to clean out my arteries.
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I am hoping the annatto vitamin E has helped but just need to get the money together for more tests 
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However, based on the Chinese study we may need 10,000 FU of Nattokinase, so the $12 bottle I see on Amazon with 90 capsules of 2,000 FU each would last 18 days (or $0.66 per day). This compares to some of the now off-patent statins that I probably can get for $3 per month ($0.10 per day)?…it’s only $300 difference per year but there has to be a benefit.
Maybe the Nattokinase removes plaque and lowers LDL while the statin just lowers TC? — this is worth an extra $300 per year.
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I started using Neprinol—a compound that is mostly nattokinase—about 15-16 years ago after a very scary carotid scan. After 3 months it was significantly better (no longer in the “you could drop dead any minute zone”). Since then I take it for the entire month of November every year. Heart scan is clean (total Ca score was 11). Carotid also clean as a whistle. Btw I have horrible lipids (total chol 250, tg around 330. I react very well to rosuvastatin 5 mg (chol 110, tg 90). And I may use it intermittently just to cover my ass.
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I’ve been taking 250mg per day since May. From Amazon, $0.08 per pill so not very expensive. I haven’t had my blood tested since then, so I can’t report any results yet. But, my blood work was pretty good before I started taking it, so it may not be possible to detect any effect or to attribute any effect specifically to the Natto.
That is really great to hear, @Coachrhyk , and much appreciated detail. Thank you.
I’ve read in a few places that Nattokinase can be effective is “cleaning out” plaque from arteries and I’m happy it brought you back from the edge. Any idea what kind of doses of Nattokinase you might be taking daily in each November (or whatever your protocol is)? I’m curious so I can think about what a dose of pure Nattokinase for someone with an issue to correct is taking, and I can use this as an upper-limit to my thoughts of dosing.
Nattokinase is of interest to me because I am very curious if I can take a decent “artery plaque cleansing protocol” every quarter (or month, or year) to drastically reduce my risk of CVD even if I have higher LDL (which, absent the very-very-real CVD risk appears to potentially be protective in several other key areas). This and donating blood every six months and keeping rigorous (but not “endurance-level”) exercise should keep me kicking for a long time. (CVD risk is substantially lower with softer/elastic/plaque-free arteries and “reasonably-thinner” blood?)
I’ve been toying with the idea that, given my health is relatively good (and I feel great, and I get some good “up/down looks” from women in elevators), that I should be “pulsing” these protocols instead of a daily unaltering protocol I take for the rest of my life without deviation. For instance:
o. planning to take Rapamycin twice a month, and fasting for two days during my dose (maybe extend one of these fasts to four days as much as I can but not more than once a month and likely more like once every two months), but then not fasting and trying to promote growth/muscle/regeneration during the other times of the month.
o. Building muscle/strength with heavier protein and gym work for months, and then less protein periods with more hiking/stairs, cardio and lower/fewer weights.
o. Perhaps bouts of growth-inducing compounds such as GSK-Cu and BPC-157, and then rest periods in which I take Rapamycin. Etc.
This is because I feel (paraphrased by a doctor podcast which I cannot now remember) that each protocol has real trade offs, and if I “pulse” them (while keeping lean and healthy throughout) I can move two steps forward with each different “pulse” in multiple dimensions/axes even while I move one step back in each (because of the trade offs). But just a thought (there is no ITP for this protocol as far as I know).
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Soy intolerance is my why not. And if I were taking it it would be for a specific chronic health issue, because it was popular in chronic covid related conditions.
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I’ve been using Neprinol (I don’t want to insert link since I might get tagged as seeking something) which now is only serratipeptiase and amla.
Likewise, you can try to get your hands on pyridoxamine (not any other form) cannot be bought or shipped to us due to patent drug “infringement”.
Other things I did to clean out was IV EDTA. BUT THAT WAS ABOUT 15 years ago and have been fine since.
Good luck on your artery cleansing adventure!
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I took nattokinase for a month or so, but was also prescribed small aspirin by one of my doctors since I was on trt. I was worried about my blood thinning too much, and/or any possible hemmorragic effect taking both could cause.
I would ideally like to give it another try in lieu of aspirin but I’m not sure there’s enough research to support.
I do agree it should be given more consideration for CVD
My doctor loves Nattokinase and Lumbrokinase. He uses is for covid vaccine related injuries and claims it removes microscopic blood clots left in ones capillary system from spike proteins.
Flccc.net would have more information regarding that. Chelation therapy is an excellent option for the removal of plaque and calcium build up.
Good luck!
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If Nattokinase (and others) thin blood, would this itself be a positive beyond “cleansing” plaques from blood vessels? Many people take aspirin for this purpose and I don’t believe there are other benefits for longevity of aspirin (or really a reason to take it beyond thinning blood). So would replacing aspirin with Nattokinase be appropriate? If the issue is simply fewer platlets for less coagulation, this would be a good replacement.
I know many on this forum donate blood regularly to reduce iron levels and to recycle red blood cells more often (I believe — happy to be corrected) (and beyond the benefit of altruistically helping others). Would “thinning” blood replace the need for donating?
I assume there is always the possibility of too much of a good thing. Are there home tests for blood thinness? — for anemicasI would assume so. There are Prothrombin Time (PT)/INR tests which look like what they use. In the US they look like they are prescription only. But they simply measure coagulation. Is that what interests us in longevity? Is there a better test to use?
I am asking because using Nattokinase fascinates me, given my higher LDL, as a preventative measure for ASCVD and CVD in general (perhaps not constantly, and instead pulsed one month every quarter,/half etc.). Nice clean tween-level arteries would be nice. But I don’t want to inadvertently create a new issue (thin blood?) that I don’t currently have. So knowing where I am in the scale of physiology would be a nice thing before delving into a preventative biohack.
The link I found says Neprinol is Serrapeptase, Nattokinase, and Lipase - combined for 30,000 FU plus protease, anla extract, bromelain, papain, and coq10.
Do you take 2 pills per day for one month? 2 in the morning 2 at night?
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LaraPo
#29
I’m wondering if it could improve pancreas function/condition. I have hard time digesting fats.
I take 3x3 for a month annually. It also did wonders for a friend’s sister(anecdote alert!). She was late 70’s and chronic obstruction of carotids. Not given much of a survival chance. Five years later, she moved to Hawaii with new boyfriend and doing well with no stent required. I think she took it continuously for a few years. I really should follow up on her.
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and another anecdotal result here. Fifteen years ago my mother was similarly in her late 70’s and resident in a nursing home after suffering a stroke years earlier. The manager called me one day to say they were very concerned as her legs had turned almost black. Long story short - I signed off on Nattokinase for her (I seem to recall 2000 fu) and literally within days her legs had returned to a healthy colour and remained so until she passed a number of years later. The care home staff were astonished. I posted about it on imminst at the time but am unable to find the post now.
I have partially blocked carotids and have taken Nattokinase on an off several times with no improvement to be seen on scans …… no deterioration either though!
Incidentally, I remember reading that an md commented recently of youtube that he’d have no problem in recommending a combination of both aspirin and nattokinase since they work entirely differently.
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Bicep
#33
They didn’t use enough. Need between 10 and 12 thousand FU/day:
I don’t go continuous, I have a couple bottles, then wait awhile.
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Thank you, @KarlT, much appreciated: not the rousing endorsement I had hoped for. The doing and timeframe appear to be roughly at what @Tomnook ’s mother took, albeit when she was 85 (?) and already highly compromised. I don’t know how to match @Dexter_Scott ’s 250mg per day with FU per day so no idea if this is in range.
Based on the Chinese study I had referenced above with the highly positive results they used 10,000 FU per day (although being a Chinese study to err is a high probability it is a) faked data and/or conclusions, b) incorrectly obtained/interpreted data/conclusions, or possibly correct) — 5x what the null study @KarlT referenced. (Paper here, but also the first post in this thread: Nattokinase: An Oral Antithrombotic Agent for the Prevention of Cardiovascular Disease - PMC )
I’ve been contemplating using this as a “pulsed” treatment once per quarter/half/year so higher dosing is expected.
Here is the text from the @KarlT referenced paper abstract explaining their methods and conclusions:
In this double-blinded trial, 265 individuals of median age 65.3 years, without clinical evidence of cardiovascular disease (CVD) were randomized to oral nattokinase 2,000 fibrinolytic units or matching placebo. Primary outcome was rate of change in subclinical atherosclerosis measured by serial carotid ultrasound every 6 months as carotid artery intima-media thickness (CIMT) and carotid arterial stiffness (CAS). Additional outcomes determined at least every 6 months were clinical parameters including blood pressure and laboratory measures including metabolic factors, blood rheology parameters, blood coagulation and fibrinolysis factors, inflammatory markers and monocyte/macrophage cellular activation markers.
Results: After median 3 years of randomized treatment, annualized rate of change in CIMT and CAS did not significantly differ between nattokinase supplementation and placebo. Additionally, there was no significant effect of nattokinase supplementation on blood pressure or any laboratory determination.
