As a drinker who measures the effect of this I do agree that there are harms from alcohol consumption.
That, however, does not prevent getting a reasonable result from things like dunedinPACE
https://twitter.com/johnhemming4mp/status/1687793388848832513
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I found this an interesting alternative perspective
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It nice to know that I can have a bit of alcohol every now and then without being a bad person.
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SNK
#126
I have always felt that moderate consumption of alcohol is good for health. Anecdotally, know of more than 5 people who have lived to be 100 years old and were very regular drinkers of up to 2 ounces per day, usually first thing in the morning with a shot of expresso. These five people outlived all their siblings which were all non-drinkers (oldest non-drinker passed at 92). Obviously, n=5 is not a big enough sample size, plus could be other factors but definitely moderate alcohol did NOT interfere with their health and long life. I also know of another regular drinker who is 93 and still drinks daily a shot or two. Take it for what’s worth but very moderate alcohol does not seem to negatively affect health. I only consume one or two meals daily (always skip breakfast) and would love to break my daily fast with a shot of brandy (1/2 hour before first meal) but I HATE the taste of alcohol. So, I am convinced that one shot of good quality brandy is indeed good, too bad I can’t myself drink it, as it tastes horrendous to me lol
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RPS
#127
I wonder if alcohol tastes horrendous to you if that isn’t your body telling you that alcohol is specifically bad for you just because of your own individual genetic makeup.
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Alcohol consumption and S-Klotho plasma levels in sedentary healthy middle-aged adults: A cross sectional study
Alcohol lowers klotho in sedentary healthy middle-aged adults. 2. Low klotho --worse cognition, frailty, and falls.
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SNK
#129
I think you are right, it’s got to be something to do with my genetic makeup. I don’t mind it now but in younger years I used to be so upset that I couldn’t drink lol
More from Dr Attia on alcohol consumption.
From chatGPT
Sure, I can summarize that article for you. Here is the main idea:
The article by Peter Attia discusses the relationship between low to moderate alcohol consumption and longevity, based on a study that used Mendelian randomization (MR) to overcome the limitations of observational and randomized controlled trials. MR is a method that uses gene variants associated with alcohol intake as a proxy measure for the actual exposure, eliminating confounding factors and allowing causal inference. The study found that low to moderate alcohol intake was associated with increased risk of cardiovascular disease (CVD), contrary to previous studies that suggested a protective effect. The article also explains the possible mechanisms behind this finding, such as the effects of alcohol on blood pressure, inflammation, and lipid metabolism. The article concludes that the optimal level of alcohol intake for longevity is likely zero or very low, and that people should be cautious about the potential harms of alcohol consumption1
1: This summary is based on the article Low to moderate alcohol consumption and longevity by Peter Attia.
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I may do an n=1 on this by taking some ke4 when i drink and see if i can perceive any difference.
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ng0rge
#134
Just for my n=1, because I had mentioned in the sleep thread(?) that I was concerned about the quality of my sleep and whether it was affected by my daily 1 glass of wine with dinner. Well I got a Polar H10 and set it up with Sleep as Android App and wear it all night as a sleep monitor. Still a glass of wine every night. My last week of sleep scores -100 -98 -95 -99 -91 -100 -97 so maybe my concern was unnecessary. This has been my daily routine for years and I’ve never abused alcohol, always a moderate drinker. In my generation - child of the 60s, marijuana was the social drug of choice for much of my life and the ritual of passing a joint around was very tribal (like a peace pipe) and really felt like you were bonding. Eventually (about 25 years ago) I just got bored with pot, it no longer did anything for me. But I was really into food (a foodie) and went to dinners and restaurants with my friends. Good wine was an integral part of that. The craft beer movement was also rising (I lived in Portland, Oregon) and I loved that.
The 2 main points that I want to make (re: alcohol) are 1) for me it was more about the complexity of flavors (craft beer and wine) than the physical effects.
2) both beer and wine drinking are by long tradition a socializing ritual that often brings people together.
In the current environment I see a gathering public health crusade against alcohol and I think that’s good for the most part. Alcohol does a tremendous amount of damage to peoples health and well beyond that. And the science is sound, no one should defend alcohol by saying that it’s good for you (physically). But it may be good for your social life and particularly as you get older, those social connections are super important. Do they require alcohol? No. But feeling part of the gang (and being very moderate) may contribute more to your healthspan than imposing strict rules on yourself against any alcohol.
As I’ve said here before we face many environmental hazards (air pollution, water micro-contaminants, microplastics, forever chemicals) that if we are really fanatical absolutists about our health, we could minimize by moving to an isolated part of Iceland and working online. We need to face that life is full of tradeoffs and become good at using our judgement to prioritize-I’ll give up a little here, to gain a little more over there. We’re also facing a crisis of community (re:Covid), I used to love watching families and neighborhoods gather at the local brewpubs. They’re suffering now. Anyway, you get my point (I hope).
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To me (and to be fair I am currently drinking some red wine having had some Pernod and a pint of lager earlier) the interesting question is to what extent the harm from alcohol can be mitigated.
There clearly is a benefit from acetate. There is harm from acetaldehyde. With a mixture of DHM, Pantehine, Molybdenum and Melatonin, much of the harm from drinking can be mitigated. It still remains it is best to go some days without drinking. I last drunk on Sunday and can see the positive effects of not drinking on all the measurements I do.
In the end I suppose you need to monitor all of the biomarkers. My more recent ALP values were 43, 48,55, 50. I have now brought my MCV under some control (it was in the upper 90s and sometimes over 100, but now is in the lower 90s). Urate is an issue, but that’s ok.
Hence I have decided to have another drinking day. I think it is a good idea to go a day or two at least without alcohol. I can see things calming down.
What I used to find is that alcohol drove my RHR right up, but actually now it is not going above 55 even when I have a multi day bender. (I avoid drinking until the afternoon).
I do think it would be a good idea to publicise mechanisms for minimising the harm from alcohol. That does not fit with the puritanical attitude of people dealing with this, sadly.
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ng0rge
#138
Alright, we get it…alcohol is bad for you but c’mon…
Irreversible Blindness!
From Wikipedia: " a standard drink is defined as 0.6 oz. of ethanol per serving, which is about 14 grams of alcohol.This corresponds to a 12-US-fluid-ounce can of 5% beer."
As @John_Hemming says, there is a bit of “the puritanical attitude of people” and I would say “health scares and fearmongering” when you’re telling them that one can of beer a day will make them go blind or cause irreversible death! And speaking of the Puritans, didn’t they say that masturbation would make you go blind? (maybe not irreversibly)
https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2017/nov/27/fear-factor-worry-alarmist-health-reporting-medical-scare-stories
https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/fearmongering-scare-tactics-health-medical-content-brief-dubey
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To be fair I start from the positiion that death is not really reversible.
I am, however, really quite drunk at the moment so that may not be a true statement. I may be chanelling Chat GPT.
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ng0rge
#140
John, I’m praying for you…really hope you don’t go blind!
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Like anything here… if its not for you, skip over it. I’m sure most things are not of interest to most people, and thats ok.
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