#28

I am not a fan of a lifestyle that includes counting every calorie, not eating any sugar, no alcohol, etc. I am more of a fan of “Don’t worry, be happy”

From the movie Auntie Mame:
Auntie Mame; “Life is a banquet, and most poor suckers are starving to death!”

Greek poet Hesiod (c. 700 bc), ‘observe due measure; moderation is best in all things’
Oscar Wilde: “Everything in moderation, including moderation.

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#29

As my grandmother always used to say, “a little of what you fancy does you good”,
Emphasis on the “little”.
On a Sunday I have no restrictions (and a small glass of wine at lunchtime), and I’m very happy with that.

Totally agree with the sentiments of Guywholikessleep.

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#30

I tend to avoid alcohol. But I’m curious if there might be any positive effects due to really low levels (e.g. drinks with 0.5% alcohol, etc.). Benefits due to hormesis perhaps?

#31

i have about 4 drinks a week. but only because my gf makes me. have even oooone drink after 3pm and you’ve just cost yourself some deep sleep. and usually all of it. that’s what my Oura ring tells me at least. If it were up to me, I’d only drink at parties. (approx monthly with a good buzz - like 4 drinks) But I def would not stop drinking. It’s fun. You gotta have SOME fun in life. And alcohol is one of the ways. Coffee ain’t good for me either but I’ll be stickin with 2 cups a day regardless of longevity.

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#32

100% agree with having “some fun” in life, heck I strive for way more than some!

But do I need to have alcohol in my glass to have this fun?

This “social construct” has been glorified by the liquor industry, mainstream social media, peer pressure, historical norms. My liver is not “amused”.

When I host, I prepare mixed drinks for guests, fill my glass with club soda…the social dynamics are completely unperturbed. I partake in the spirit, but without the spirits.

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#33

Some rather funny information… turns out rapamycin probably makes you want to drink less alcohol…

This research also touches upon the issue of rapamycin crossing the blood brain barrier.

The team showed that using both the drugs [rapamycin and another drug] —one of which is already in clinical oncology trials— effectively made it possible block the AUD target mTORC1 specifically in the brain, and not in the periphery. When tested in mice, treatment with both drugs attenuated alcohol seeking and drinking.

In previous work, Ron showed that consuming alcohol activates the enzyme in the brain. “Studies in rodents suggest that mTORC1 plays a crucial role in mechanisms underlying phenotypes such as heavy alcohol intake, habit, and relapse. Thus, mTORC1 inhibitors, which are used in the clinic, are promising therapeutic agents to treat AUD,” the investigators commented.

Ron has also shown that blocking the activity of mTORC1 with the FDA-approved compound rapamycin—which is used to treat some types of cancer and suppress immune response in transplant patients—can halt cravings in a mouse model of alcohol use disorder.

“It’s really quite striking,” she said, adding that a whole body of study points to the possibility of mTORC1 being a kind of supermolecule that is activated by all misused drugs. “If that’s true,” Ron said, “It suggests that this approach can be applied to other drugs of abuse as well, essentially solving the problem of addiction.”

Full Paper:

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-021-24567-x

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#34
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#35

Rapamycin has done nothing to reduce my alcohol use (though it probably would be good if it did.)

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#36

New research:

In the pre-heart failure group, compared with no alcohol use, moderate or high intake was associated with a 4.5-fold increased risk of worsening heart health. The relationship was also observed when moderate and high levels were analysed separately. In the at-risk group, there was no association between moderate or high alcohol use with progression to pre-heart failure or to symptomatic heart failure. No protective associations were found for low alcohol intake.

Dr. Wong said: "Our study suggests that drinking more than 70 g (about 2.5 oz) of alcohol per week is associated with worsening pre-heart failure or progression to symptomatic heart failure in Europeans. We did not observe any benefits of low alcohol usage. Our results indicate that countries should advocate lower limits of safe alcohol intake in pre-heart failure patients.

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#37

A very recent meta-analysis shows 3.5 cups of coffee per day to be the optimum for reducing all-cause mortality. Google it!

Similarly, there are comprehensive meta-analyses showing all-cause mortality reduction for modest alcohol consumption.

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#38

No, watch the video at the top of the thread. When you apply Mendelian randomisation alcohol is detrimental at all doses.

Re: Caffeine

Individuals who are homozygous for the CYP1A21A are “rapid” caffeine metabolizers, whereas carriers of the variant CYP1A21F are “slow” metabolizers. I suspect if you’re in the latter category 3.5 cups of coffee would be detrimental due to its negative impact on sleep.

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#39

That is ONE study. Many studies contradict this. Which is why meta-analyses become critical. Peter Attia’s ‘Studying Studies’ is a great resource ( Studying Studies: Part I - relative risk vs. absolute risk - Peter Attia (peterattiamd.com)

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#40

Did you actually watch the video? He references three massive independent studies?

I think you may be suffering from a case of cognitive dissonance…

#41

I am an absolute believer in “absolute risk”. Relative risk promotes the ever-increasing length of our supplement stacks. i.e. Such and such a supplement reduces the risk of, you name it, by 50% and we hurry to Amazon to order the supplement.

As per coffee. I doubt anyone loves coffee more than I do. It has had little or no effect on my sleep. I can drink two cups of coffee and take a nap.

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#42

Yes, in fact, I did watch. And from the nature of your reply, I suspect you may be a victim of biases yourself. A youtube video discussing three studies (though only one is the major argument. the author’s words: “A recent study sent shockwaves through the medical community.”) still does not displace the fact that many studies are faulty and non-repeatable. Meta-analyses are critical. Do these studies meet high standards? Did you read these studies? (Again, refer to Dr Attia’s work).

The overwhelming science is and has been in favor of moderate consumption. Let me give you a jump start on your homework:

Alcohol Consumption and Mortality From Coronary Heart Disease: An Updated Meta-Analysis of Cohort Studies - PMC.

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#43

Peter even addresses the question himself here:

https://peterattia.supercast.com/feeds/Lri7jFT6S8kTimkpZ4apLPrR

I’ll summarise for you. Ethanol is a poison at all doses.

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#44

Wishful thinking to the contrary " Ethanol is a poison at all doses." is a true statement.
I for one am sorry that is the case.

Every one of my co-workers and friends who were “moderate” drinkers who were my age or slightly younger is now dead. I do not presently have any friends or relatives who are 81 years or older.

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#45

Yes, Peter does talk about Alcohol consumption. From his advice, if you do consume spirits (he does) you should stick to only the highest quality products. I switched to his favored Tequila Clase Azul Reposado for that occasional shot.

Again, the important point here could not be better addressed by a careful read of his most highly regarded and widely referenced ‘Study of Studies’ series. And anecdotes are just that: anecdotes, (Charles).

And, If you get through that first HW above, I’ve got more for you…

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#46

Dude stop trying to teach your grandma to suck eggs.

Attia explains the flaws in the epidemiology in that podcast. For example, many people stop drinking because of underlying health issues.

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#47

That doesn’t detract from my argument. Nor does your colorful vitriol. Have a good day, Sir.

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